and burnout and the way they maybe can try to put themselves onto their to-do list and I'm curious because as I said very aligned with what I do why does that matter to you as a person as a coach and author and podcast host and all these amazing things you do why does it matter?

Thank you so much for having me, Anne.

And honestly, I appreciate you listing all those pieces about me, author, coach, speaker.

But the reason why it really mattered the most to me was as a mom, as a woman, as someone who has been on that journey, who has unfortunately been to my own place of burnout by not doing the things that I teach now, by not putting myself on to-do list, by putting everybody else's needs first, by taking care of myself last.

I found, you know, on my journey, how much it mattered, not only just to me, but to my kids.

My journey started about 20 years ago.

I was going through a divorce.

What was the second one?

Mm

... my mom used to always say? Is this just kind of an underlying belief? Did my boss say this, or where did that come from? And then w- if a friend came to you and said that, what would you say different? So just to start to reframe it, not to beat yourself up.

There's no judgment in any of this, but to really look at, examine it.

Where did it come from, and what would I say differently? And to take that new phrase and just to kinda see if you can start practicing that.

A lot of times people want this to be a quick one and done, and it does take some repetition and pr- practice.

We're creating new neural pathways in our brains, whole new ways of thinking, but it just takes from repeating one phrase over and over again.

Like, "I don't need to be available 24/7 to be a good employee." And you just say that maybe each morning.

And how, how do you come back to people with that?