And and what like what were the initial events like? Were you trying to launch a business or were you literally just trying to like find people to meet you at a bar or something like that? That actually was the first

event was at a bar.

Very good.

And it was just me hitting up the friends that I had on Facebook at the time and just saying, let's meet up at a bar and talk about CPG.

And even a few of them weren't in CPG, but they are my friends and they helped me make the event look fuller.

I would say I have launched enough stuff in my life where I at least learned how not to do it, which meant don't launch this as a Facebook group because you actually can't even send people a message when you need to.

But back then, that was very common to do.

So were there like people at your events that were like, Oh, I wish we didn't, we could interact with each other in between the events or what was the discussion that led to that?

Yeah.

I'm very proud of where we've gotten to.

Uh, so yeah, like I mentioned, I just wanted to do events and bring people together, and then it was just, it was a fun side project for me and it, I didn't know where it was going, but it just kept gaining momentum, and people loved the in-person events.

As I was doing more and more of them, I refined the idea about what it was.

'Cause I would look around, I'm like, "Okay, gosh, it's so hard to be an early stage brand." It really, the industry seems stacked against these entrepreneurs because you have to pay for these big shows, and everybody wants a retainer just because they know the name of that co-manufacturing partner you need.

I don't think it has to be that way.

And- I didn't need to charge them because I had a good job.

Yeah.

Why D2C first?

probably a lot of people here at this conference, which is more e-com focused, are more familiar with digitally native brands.

My experience is actually much more in the retail focus because in food and beverage, I think something like 90% of the volume still happens through brick and mortar, like retail, even if it gets delivered coming from the stores.

And it's actually quite uncommon and impressive if a brand can make e-commerce in general work in food and beverage.

So Let me just ask a quick crowd question here.

Of the people in the audience, how many of you actually buy a food or beverage product on subscription today? Okay, that is actually a pretty typical number when I ask this.

So that to me looked like about 15% of people.

But they know how long it's gonna take me to go through that, and they've cadenced it accordingly, so I don't end up having three bags of dog food

Why do you think in-person connection still matters so much in the digital first CPG world?

In person has and always will be the most effective way to get in front of people.

There's no replacement for that.

I mean, you know, how many LinkedIn messages do you get a day from random people? Any one of them, if you meet them in the right setting, you're much more likely to listen to them for a second.

Maybe there's something about the confidence that they have, the look that they give you, the materials they have that makes you pay attention in a different way.

That is true for anybody, for brands, whoever.

There's nothing like the chance to talk to them.

How has the podcast changed your thinking around storytelling and trust in the CPG industry?