So when you said I've seen it in the locker room, What has that taught you? Like where no other phase of life could have.

Yeah.

And I've experienced leadership in many different capacities, playing sports, playing football specifically, because I've been subordinate.

Like I've entered as a freshman in the University of Ottawa, and obviously I'm being led.

I'm a young guy, don't have a voice on the team.

And then within...

The five years I was at the University of Ottawa going kind of through the ranks and becoming a leader on the team, a captain, and then one of the leaders on the leadership council as well.

So when you see that leadership is right, what does that team room or that locker room look like to you? Like, what's the feeling? What's the conversation? Just to give us an idea.