When you're working with a producer, do you want them to be hands-on, or is it more case by case looking for a certain feel based on the energy they're bringing to you?

I mean, truthfully, you know, I think we're...

I think I'm a little bit difficult at times, you know? Because it's like, you, you come in and then...

I mean, a- but as you make more and more records, I think you get a little bit easier, and you...

You know, the idea is to do something that's gonna surprise you, you know? You might come in with songs as a band that you've already, like, put together that you're, you know, excited with, and you're...

And that's the only...

That's when we know we, you know, we started...

[laughs] Um, how are you and the band navigating this?

When did you get in the clearing, do you think, as a band, or at least individually, the two of you, where you felt like we don't have to think about all of the distractions and the stresses and the weirdness of this anymore? Like, this is ours and we can actually just purely enjoy it.

I think for one, whenev- when we do have the opportunity to write in a room, which is, we're not writing on the road or, like, as far as us being in a room playing music together, it's always fun in the sense that it's never like we were going there because, oh yeah, we should go make...

It's never felt like work, or we're doing this 'cause it's, like, going to work, or we need to do this.

It's like, we go there, we don't have any plans, we don't discuss it, and then we start playing, and then, like Paul is, was s- mentioning, is like as soon as we start working on something, you get excited.

And that excitement, I, to me, it feels very similar to the early days of Interpol.

When you're working on something, it should feel like, oh yeah, this is gonna be the...

This could be the best thing we've ever done, or this has that possibility.

Mm

The idea of like, you know, say you spend like 10,000 hours playing your guitar, right? But it's like the 30 seconds in amongst that 10,000 hours that that fucking sick riff or that lick comes from.

And it's also, I mean, there's so many things that pop in mind.

One, I think Paul's a constantly evolving artist.

He's someone that's constantly, I think getting better, growing and expanding upon like his craft, both as a, as a, as a musician and as a vocalist, it's like really inspiring to see him to be around.

Um, two i think also like when even like starting the band i was like less interested in like musos you know it was once when i was like in high school i was like i could actually solo in a way that like i could not do that for the life of me i'm like how the hell did i do that like when i hear like old demos i'm like well i'm like really wailing there but there was something that was probably actually around like went back to fugazi i was like wait a minute this stuff is not important who you don't need this stuff get rid of this stuff like strip away a lot of the fat just focus on the things that's actually saying something And then even like when we're starting the band, I was like really looking for people's more curious about sensibilities, how people like care themselves.

And then secondary, what instrument they played or if they played an instrument, great.

But it was more like there was something about them.

I was like, I

... is it hard to settle into one sound?

I mean, I mean, may- maybe it is, but I think that's good, and I think it's something that I, we don't ever pay that much mind to.

Whether, you know, like a, what kind of sound that might be, or whether this fits or whatnot.

You know, if it feels good, it feels good, and I think we've always just kind of abided by that.

You know, it's like Paul's influence is we have some overlap from, you know, the early conversations when I first met him.

You know, there were some overlaps and so forth.

But he's always been, like, you know, he's really, really into hip hop, and that's predominantly what he listens to the most, and that's been consistent since I've known him.

Yeah

Yeah, yeah.

Like, it was more, like, just as an investment and, you know, he has a lot of, like, cocktail bars in the East Village and so forth.

And, um- But him and I both lived in that neighborhood.

I mean, I lived more in Boerum Hill at the time, and he lived in Cobble Hill.

So we had, like, an investment in creating something, um, you know.

Every- And he already had the space, so...

Um, and I think we actually were eating very similarly at the time, and so we both wanted to do this.

Yeah.