And he had a McGruff puppet in his classroom.

No teacher was ever good at it because, like, no teacher is a natural puppeteer.

But that wasn't the only problem.

I just remember just like, I'm not going to sing along.

Like no kid that I know listening to McGruff was like, yeah, I'm definitely not doing drugs.

Like, you know, not in a way that like they were pro drugs.

They just weren't going to listen to a cartoon dog.

In the mid-1990s, Daniel was one of those kids, and he went to a lot of shows where he closely observed these bands' performance styles.

But that wasn't the only problem.

I just remember just, like, I'm not gonna sing along.

Like, no kid that I know listening to McGruff was like, "Yeah, I'm definitely not doing drugs." Like, you know, not in a way that, like, they were pro drugs.

They just weren't gonna listen to a cartoon dog.

We were probably a little too old for it.

Straight up, boy, and girl, when they get talking, someone-

Straight edge was about basically, uh, a push of self-control to abstain from drugs, alcohol, and the idea behind it was sort of like the ultimate rebellion is, is self-control, and that's how you're best going to be able to rebel against the system.

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You can't believe that junk inside your head.

So shut up, fuck my age, man, we're late getting drunk and someone-

Straight edge was about basically, uh, a push of self-control to abstain from drugs, alcohol, and the idea behind it was sort of like the ultimate rebellion is, is self-control, and that's how you're best going to be able to rebel against the system.

Minor Threat's version of the message resonated with teenagers, mostly white, mostly boys, for whom more mainstream just say no pap likely did not.

There was this big, huge, and I mean huge, nationwide, worldwide, uh, movement in, like, the early '80s, like punk and hardcore scene, to the straight edge movement, where people were, like, putting big X on their hands to indicate that they didn't drink, they didn't do drugs.

And he had a McGruff puppet in his classroom.

No teacher was ever good at it because, like, no teacher is a natural puppeteer.

But that wasn't the only problem.

I just remember just like, I'm not going to sing along.

Like no kid that I know listening to McGruff was like, yeah, I'm definitely not doing drugs.

Like, you know, not in a way that like they were pro drugs.

They just weren't going to listen to a cartoon dog.

In the mid-1990s, Daniel was one of those kids, and he went to a lot of shows where he closely observed these bands' performance styles.

And he was on the inside, too.

Would, like, you know, wheel in the TV on a cart and, and put in a little VHS of McGruff telling you to avoid strangers and not get, like, touched by people or get into cars.

On the cover, a plush McGruff, like the one that had been in Daniel's classroom, leans against a brick wall, one arm slung over it and the other hand in a trench coat pocket.

And w- we had that, like, you know, like, just nostalgic of, like, "McGruff! Remember McGruff?" And so we bought this cassette, and we, like, put it in the car and listened to it.

[upbeat music]

He was on the outside of it.

There was like an event where you brought your bike to school and then they would put a big flag on it.

And I remember McGruff being there in person.

And he was on the inside, too.

With like, you know, wheeling the TV on a cart and put in a little VHS of...

McGruff telling you to avoid strangers and not get touched by people or get into cars.

That's Jenny, but that's not Jenny's dad.

Basically telling you, you're going to get kidnapped, which is a dark thing to tell a fifth grader.

And he was on the inside, too.

Would, like, you know, wheel in the TV on a cart and, and put in a little VHS of McGruff telling you to avoid strangers and not get, like, touched by people or get into cars.

On the cover, a plush McGruff, like the one that had been in Daniel's classroom, leans against a brick wall, one arm slung over it and the other hand in a trench coat pocket.

And w- we had that, like, you know, like, just nostalgic of, like, "McGruff.

Remember McGruff?" And so we bought this cassette, and we, like, put it in the car and listened to it.

[upbeat music]

Not a big deal.

Yeah.

[chuckles] Just j- yeah.

They were kind of in that realm.

But they were, um, they were the best in that they were very, um, inclusive of me and my friends, even though we were, you know, much younger and nerdy and we didn't know anything cool.

And they would bring us to shows.

They would let us borrow CDs.

How have you interacted with that, uh, idea that obviously as an artist you need to make a living, you need to have some sort of business-minded principles and the ability to navigate, you know, contracts or deals or whatever? Was that something that came naturally to you, or did you have to learn over time?

We'll have straight ahead, breakneck fast screamo-type songs, and then there'll be more orchestral, laid back, dynamic shift things, and I love that kind of stuff.

Yeah, it was... [sighs] You know, we started on the record pretty much right after Darkness finished, and we, we did, you know, we finished that record, released it, and did a bunch of tours.

And we kind of immediately went into, well, we have to do the follow-up.

And we spent about a year writing a record, you know, like, you know, practice every couple weekends sort of thing.

And we spent about a year writing it, and then we wr- spent about two weeks recording a first iteration of the record.

And it just didn't land right.

Like, no one was quite happy with it.

And it just came out this year, right?