I don't know if you've heard that or if you experienced that.

Yeah.

Well, even now, um, like I think when I came out, I was very fortunate to have a friendship group who were fairly emotionally intelligent and not like, um, where i where i grew up it was very like a laddish behavior like um banter and all of that sort of stuff and um i i probably dished it out as much as i received it myself to be perfectly honest with you um but when you knew someone was struggling you didn't joke about it you then kind of paid attention whereas i know that in other friendship groups it wouldn't matter you could be crying people still take the piss out of you but i think my friendship group had a had a level had a point where i was like no actually it's serious now let's not let's not joke about this anymore um And, you know, I've been talking in the mental health space for the last 12, 13 years, as I mentioned.

And so often I have had experiences where I feel like, oh, things are getting better or things are like becoming more normalized or it's becoming more natural for men to talk about stuff.

And then I'll hear about One of my mates is working in construction in London.

I'm like, oh, no, this is like we're still nowhere near where I think we need to be in terms of people opening up and being honest and talking about just things that happen in life.

And I see it a lot.

What can I do to show up or to create a sense of safety where people can come and talk to me if they're struggling? What would you suggest for a leader?