just whatever feels In terms of your background as a fan of rock music, the likes of Sabbath and so on, how does that influence your disposition as an electronic producer? Are there particular traits of rock music that you see as blending into your work as an electronica?

Yeah, definitely.

In fact, I find it very difficult to veer away from that thought process.

Guitar music, shoegaze music in particular was really my first love.

So that beautiful distortion and melodies submerged in noise and it just being this like otherworldly thing.

And I've always, always tried to implement that into whatever I'm doing, whether it's ambient or drone music, even techno.

I think that's the prevailing sound in my music.

Yeah, so for, I mean, the same reasons

Did you have that kind of moment?

I, I have a, I know exactly what it is.

And, uh, and it's, we can talk about it more.

The Prodigy, Fat of the Land, which came out in '97.

And it's, it's, it's funny to me, right? But I always go on about, you know, "I'm an indie kid, I'm a rock kid." The reality is that my first gig- My dad took me to see The Prodigy when I was 11 years old in Bournemouth on that Fat of the Land Tour.

So I can talk all I want about guitars, but that punch of the kick drum hit me before anything else really, and I loved The Prodigy.

Obviously they were a crossover between the rock and the c- and the, uh, dance world.

And more DJing than making music?

So when you're making an album, do you have a sort of shape in mind? Do you know, uh, where you're going, uh, uh, what your starting point is, is going to be, w- at, where, where your m- where the big moments will come, that sort of thing?

Well, at the very beginning stages, no. Um, in those early stages, it's simply making music.

It's simply getting in the studio, and the way I approach it, at least, is to just go in with no preconceived ideas, and whatever happens, happens.

And generally I found that wherever your mind is, you'll start to make things that start to work together.

But then for me, as, as it progresses and it starts to have a handful, a large handful of tracks together, when you start piecing them together, and I guess this is where my DJ brain kicks in, or at least the album-loving music obsessive comes in, yeah, that's when you start to think, "This h- this comes in the second half.

This comes on side B of a vinyl or a cassette." And, um, that always is the most exciting thing for me.

When you take songs, and they start to form a long player, an album, that's really, for me, the most magical moment.

What, what do you get from that apart from being less lonely?