That's code TRUE, T-R-U-E.

It's about just having those open conversations and see where it leads.

Another thing that is more of a long-term thing is we're trying to grow the number of new competitors.

Our new competitor percentage has dropped since 2024 by about 25%.

We're trying to grow that.

So we'd like to look for sponsors that could help us do that.

model could be that they would give us a pot of money and then we would sort of incentivize competitions and organizers to create programs to bring in more new competitors, advertising through schools or Instagram or whatever.

Real quick, wherever you're listening to this, if you could like the video or give it a five-star rating on the platform you're listening on, that helps spread the show to more cubers.

A- and so Dan, what are some of the logical hypotheses that you're starting to think about? Is it mostly related to sorta decadal climate patterns or longer term changes in sorta environmental condition driven by, driven by changes in climate in that area, right?

Yeah.

I mean, one of the things that we have seen in a lot of data from a whole bunch of researchers, I mean, that's one of the nice things about doing waterfowl science.

I mean, you're working in a wetland system, which is an exciting system to think about, and a lot of other folks invest time and effort into understanding it.

And what a lot of the research has shown is that climate change is really impacting Alaska wetlands at a very high rate, much higher than other places in the world, um, because it's so far north.

And so we're, we're seeing a rate of change there that, that really outpaces everything else.

And so, um, that landscape is, you know, forcing ducks to respond to it, and so they're using it potentially in a different way.

Uh, was there some recent rain out in that area? What's the, what's the, um, what's that area looking like?

Yeah.

Correct.

Yeah.

So this this kind of all started with our president of Wildfire, Stacey Koester.

She she did a basically a coffee sleeve campaign for people missing the state of Wyoming.

And so with that, the Uden case was really one that just grasped the attention of.

It'd be nice to have some of that closure for the family.

What was it like being on that boat? Why did it matter that you had, you know, you're talking about hundreds of feet down trying to grab a barrel, but what does it matter what it's doing on the surface of the lake? I think it mattered a lot.

And then we did do that a lot during the tour, which led to some of my favorite

moments of the tour.

It depends on the bands and what they want to do.

But you can, I'm sure you've been on tours like we have before, bigger tours sometimes where you end up not speaking to other people.

I think some artists who are headline artists, who it's their tour, the tone is totally set by them.

So if they don't want to chat to anyone, like crew, catering, support bands, other artists on the bill, they can just not do that.

They can turn up for their shows and be this weird spectral presence.

I was going full xenophobia against the Brits.

So how bad have the recent outbreaks actually gotten?

So the recent outbreaks that we've seen have been some of the worst, um, that we've recorded.

And so the, the big r- kind of...

We've had two big recent events.

One was in 2020, and that was when we had about 60,000 birds dead.

Um, and then more recently in 2024, we had about 140,000 dead birds.

And so those are kind of our two big benchmarks that, um, we hope to never see again.

So is this number of dead ducks significant at the population level, or is it more just visually shocking than biologically significant?

Tell us about this idea o- of the bowl and, and why you think it's a, a successful and, and, and good concept.

Yeah, it's um...

Well, we-- I've used Western Springs for many years for shows from Big Day Out to Auckland City Limits and Laneway Festival now and the Outer Field series, and it's, uh, it's really a jewel in the crown of Auckland, I think.

It's a beautiful green field space in the middle of the city with a natural amphitheater, and it's really been, I think, underutilized as a concert venue over the years, probably because of the other things that go on there, and then the, obviously the, the larger venue stadiums that we have.

Um, but I kind of felt with putting shows in there that we were missing a, missing a trick by not, not developing it into a more of a full-time concert venue.

And, and the ability we have at Western Springs Bowl now is we can build a stage there, which we've done, which we're in the process of doing now.

We can build a stage and leave it there.

Are there ideas from either New Zealand or overseas that, that, that you looked at or that you had inspiration for when you were thinking this through?

Dan, take it away, man.

All right.

So botulism has been around for a long time, and when we say botulism, we're referring to a bacteria, uh, Clostridium botulinum.

And, you know, this has been reported...

I mean, there's re- early reports in 1910 of millions of waterfowl killed by this in California and Utah.

And unfortunately, we've seen, uh, a number of these big kinda outbreak events, uh, over the last few decades.

And this bacteria that ultimately causes these waterfowl to die is the result of them ingesting this bacteria, which turns into a neurotoxin for them.

I mean, and, and cleanup efforts, um, do they work? What do we know about any type of efforts to sort of remedy this? Like, I, I, I know ultimately what we're, what, what we would love to see is, is more water, and we're gonna get to that, but short of that, is there anything else that, that has proven successful?

[laughs]

Maybe everything's been said before.

I don't know.

I just, it...

What- what interests me is, um, is, you know, historical stories.

You know, the, the, the image of Pompeii, and the city, and the people who've been kind of hit by the lava and frozen in that pose is, is to me so interesting, so I thought, you know, I kind of imagined a conversation and a situation within that.

Um, that's the kind of, that's what I'd rather spend my time thinking about than myself and my, my feelings and thoughts.

A couple years ago.

So how engaged are you with, with any of these programs, any of these ideas? Is work underway? Is work being discussed from a science standpoint to ensure that, that we're doing the right thing in the right way with, with some of these programs?

Yeah, absolutely.

I think one of the really beneficial things for, for waterfowl that breed in California is a, a really close-knit community of, of waterfowl researchers.

And so right now, a lot of the work that's going on, uh, either related to the easement programs or really just these overall questions that we have, um, is really being tackled by this group.

And so some of the work that, uh, Matt referenced, just nest searching in general is being conducted.

A large part of that is being sponsored by California Department of Fish and Wildlife.

That research effort is led by USGS, the US Geological Survey.

[laughs] I know.

So like, what are your opinions on streaming services and stuff like that?

There's a good and a bad, and it's tough to tell which way to cease swinging.

I'm not paying for any streaming services right now.

Particularly, I'm happy to trash Spotify all day.

Even though I had canceled it, But I was still using the free version with the ads for a bit.

Because I just didn't like the way they were treating artists.

And then I continued to use the free one for a bit.

So how did Old Mountain Low become what it is now?