When did that stuff start coming into your

world? That came into my world as a result of following my curiosity.

It started pretty early.

I remember being at university.

I studied marketing and management.

as any of your listeners who've studied at uni in business would know, the first year you're basically just doing foundational subjects.

And I remember doing micro and macroeconomics.

So yeah, it's going to be an interesting few years, I think.

And you have built up this reputation as being, if not one of the leading minds in behavioral science in the country, right? When, like, was that happening back in 2008 when Facebook were taking off? Was that happening when you were building websites and you were kind of talking about CRO and CX? Or, like, was it more towards the back end before the acquisition?

So...

A lot of people today will go and study behavioral science and then go and apply that to a field like advertising.

When I was doing it, it was the other way around.

So I found myself in this world of advertising and marketing.

And one of the things that I noticed was that, you know, as we started working with bigger and bigger clients, and then those clients would bring in their other bigger and bigger agencies who were doing the, you know, the multimillion dollar ad campaigns.

And we're doing the little Facebook campaign that goes with it.

What does it mean? And what are some examples or devices that can be applied?