What is her relationship like right now with the media? I

don't.

i would say it is not strong but it is not in any way like negative in the sense of you know obviously the last couple of years with governor mckee uh has been pretty hostile with lots of us in the media i think i wouldn't say the relationship is hostile at all but i do think she's in that little bit of that trap where you know her we used to call it uh and I say this sort of happened, Jess, but, you know, she surrounds herself by, like, the East Side of Providence kind of NPR crowd.

I'm not sure it's exactly that, but I do think that there's a little bit of, you know, this kind of echo chamber where they don't consider... people are running their campaigns, and I think her specifically, I think they don't consider the traditional mainstream media to be as powerful as maybe we all once were.

And so you're not living and dying by what's on the front page of the Providence Journal.

You're not incredibly worried about, you know, what's going to happen on 12 or 10 tonight.

And you're not necessarily paying a lot of attention to what's happening on WPRO.

Unless something drastically changes, I think we can kind of see the way this is breaking.

Um, what is her relationship like right now with them?

I don't, I would say it is not strong, but it is not in any way like negative in the sense of, you know, obviously the last couple of years with Governor McKee has been pretty hostile with lots of us in the media, I think.

I wouldn't say the relationship is hostile at all, but I do think she's in that little bit of that trap where you know, her...

We used to call it, and I say this sort of half in jest, but, you know, she surrounds herself by, like, the East Side of Providence kind of NPR crowd.

I'm not sure it's exactly that, but I do think that there's a little bit of, you know, this kind of echo chamber where they don't consider... people who are running the campaigns and I think her specifically, I think they don't consider the traditional mainstream media to be as powerful as maybe we all once were.

You're not living and dying by what's on the front page of the Providence Journal.

You're not incredibly worried about, you know, what's going to happen on 12 or 10 tonight.

I think we can kind of see the way this is breaking.

What do you make of that?

Yeah, I mean, look, John Loughlin has always been, uh, I think, a, a, a formidable candidate in this race, right? He's a charming guy.

He's, he's run before and did well against David Cicilline.

And, and so, you know, he's kind of somebody who I think is liked by the press generally.

He's, he's affable.

He give, he gives good quotes, those kind of things.

Uh, y- you know, to have him in the lead, I'm sure he's in a gr- it feels like he's in a great spot.

But Providence is not an easy place to build either.

Granted, it's still quite a bit undecided, but I think that bodes well for John Laughlin.

Oh, it's very well for John Laughlin.

You know, if I'm John Laughlin, I'm hoping that there is someone out there, whether it's the Republican, you know, I don't know if there's a Republican lieutenant governor's association.

I got to imagine there is, but is there anyone out there who not can throw me a fundraiser so I can raise 10 grand? i need you know i need a 250 300 000 independent expenditure to come in and and really help me you know get over the top in this race that's not that much money right uh there is enough both Republican money nationally.

Remember, Republicans are in this spot where the midterms are not looking good for Republicans in Congress.

You'd love to pick up a relatively cheap win in blue Rhode Island to kind of save face in some ways.

So I think he's going to need that, and he's probably hoping for that to some degree.

How difficult was it for Smiley to get to that point because i think it's interesting with aaron guccian is there is there a manner in which he could just suspend his campaign and not necessarily stand up there the way smiley did at prospect park and saying i'm giving him my full endorsement

Hmm

...

the, the, the, the message that, that John Loughlin has tried to get across, and that has been effective.

I think they hoped for a big, bad wolf Republican who's gonna, who's gonna say something, you know, quasi-racist or, uh, misogynist, and they can't really do that.

Now, they're still gonna get to paint John Loughlin as a member of Donald Trump's Republican Party, and you see in the Channel 12 poll how people feel about Donald Trump.

I think 29%, uh, approve, uh, which has been pretty stable in Rhode Island for a long time.

So, you know, he still is at a disadvantage in that way.

Right.

Um, break, break it down for us, if you don't mind.

Yeah, sure.

Uh, uh, a little inside baseball, but the Morales campaign has kinda named its top two, uh, people for its transition, who, you know, I think very likely could end up in the administration as well.

One is June Rose, who, uh, you've probably covered a little bit 'cause she, uh, they're the City Council President, uh, pr- uh, City Council Chief of Staff.

Uh, they've been arrested a couple of times for a protest outside, I remember one was, I believe, in New York, one might have been in DC.

So they've made some kind of, I, I guess you could say, negative headlines, uh, for their protesting.

But, you know, understands kind of the legislative process, kind of fits in with what this, this new mayor is gonna wanna do, work with the council, that sort of thing.

Yes.

And two interesting names, um, break, break it down for us, if you don't mind.

Yeah, sure.

Uh, uh, a little inside baseball, but the Morales campaign has kinda named its top two, uh, people for its transition, who, you know, I think very likely could end up in the administration as well.

One is June Rose, who, uh, you've probably covered a little bit, 'cause she, uh, they're the city council president, uh, pr- uh, city council chief of staff.

Uh, they've been arrested a couple of times for protests outside, I remember one was I believe in New York, one might have been in DC.

So they've made some kind of, I, I guess you could say, negative headlines, uh, for their protesting.

But, you know, understands kind of the legislative process, kind of fits in with what this, this new mayor is gonna wanna do, work with the council, that sort of thing.

Yes.

941-5500 when disaster strikes you can depend on serve pro or providence 401-941-5500 he is dan mcgowan and i want to start off you are i had written about uh previewing the lieutenant governor debate What about the only debate between Republican John Laughlin against sitting Lieutenant Governor who's looking for reelection, Democrat Sabina Matos, Channel 12 bearded? I'm just curious to hear Dan McGowan's thoughts on that debate.

You know, I thought it was a pretty good debate.

I thought John Laughlin had a really good showing.

I was, for John's, like, for the case that John has to make, you know, he's got a very, it's a very narrow path to victory for him, right? He's got to find the way to, obviously he's going to win every Republican vote, and he's got to find a way to really dominate with independents, and I thought his strategy of I think more than once, in fact, is definitely in his closing statement.

But I think there was more than one time where he went out of his way to compliment the lieutenant governor, which which I certainly took notice of.

And I think that is his nod to say, like, you know what? I'm not a big, bad, evil Donald Trump Republican.

I'm I'm you know, I'm I'm fairly moderate.

And I found Governor McKee almost seemed absent from the debate a little bit.

I'm just curious to hear Dan McGowan's thoughts on that debate.

You know, I thought it was a pretty good debate.

I thought John Laughlin had a really good showing.

I was, for John's, like, for the case that John has to make, you know, he's got a very, it's a very narrow path to victory for him, right? He's got to find the way to, obviously he's going to win every Republican vote, and he's got to find a way to really dominate with independents.

And I thought his strategy of I think more than once, in fact, is definitely in his closing statement.

But I think there was more than one time where he went out of his way to compliment the lieutenant governor, which which I certainly took notice of.

And I think that is his nod to say, like, you know what? I'm not a big, bad, evil Donald Trump Republican.

And I found Governor McKee almost seemed absent from the debate a little bit.

And Dan, as you write in Roadmap, what is going on with the Providence schools and the takeover, and it sounds right now like a very fluid situation, but nothing good.

Yeah, what's funny is it's almost back to square one.

If you remember, there were a lot of conditions that were in place back when the Johns Hopkins report famously came out seven years ago and about why, which, you know, led to the state takeover of Providence schools.

But one of the not insignificant kind of findings that was something that you and I have talked about for a long time.

It was like, there's a lot of dysfunction in this place.

It's not just that the students are, you know, have abysmal test scores or the buildings were falling apart, but it was literally, you know, a place where... you know, school boards and city council members didn't agree.

Remember the mayor at the time, Jorge Alorza, they said we're interviewing, you know, crossing guards for jobs and things like that.

As always, I'm always curious to hear what type of feedback you received on that.

And Dan, as you write in Roadmap, what is going on with the Providence schools and the takeover, and it sounds right now like a very fluid situation, but nothing good.

Yeah, what's funny is it's almost back to square one.

If you remember, there were a lot of conditions that were in place back when the Johns Hopkins report famously came out seven years ago and about why, which, you know, led to the state takeover of Providence schools.

But one of the not insignificant kind of findings that was something that you and I have talked about for a long time.

It was like, there's a lot of dysfunction in this place.

It's not just that the students are, you know, have abysmal test scores or the buildings were falling apart, but it was literally, you know, a place where... you know, school boards and city council members didn't agree.

Remember the mayor at the time, Jorge Alorza, they said we're interviewing, you know, crossing guards for jobs and things like that.

As always, I'm always curious to hear what type of feedback you received on that.

Any thoughts on candidates for that or is that a decision for next year?

I think it's a decision for next year.

She's a member and finally commissioner Bonte Green is under contracts.

There's going to have to be a buyout in some sort of way.

Um, that will, you know, that would be sort of initiated by the governor or the new governor, but you know, will be handled by the council and secondary education and all the, or the post-secondary education and that kind of thing, excuse me, elementary and secondary education.

And, um, And so, you know, I think that will move not it will not be a January 1st kind of change that will be made.

You know, I think hiring for that job is going to be a really kind of key decision that that governor, that the next governor makes, whether it's Kalina Fulks or anybody else.

we're speaking with dan mcgowan of the boston globe and dan you wrote a column i think this is an interesting first time i've seen it but the new uh the current speaker actually since joe shakachi is gone Boy, the state is really not only moving very Providence-centric, but you're the speaker, and with the new mayor of Providence, this certainly, I think, changes the dynamic on Smith Hill.

Any thoughts on candidates for that or is that a decision for next year?

I think it's a decision for next year.

Remember, Commissioner Bonte-Green is under contract, so there's going to have to be a buyout in some sort of way that would be sort of initiated by the new governor, but will be handled by the council and secondary education, or post-secondary education and that kind of thing.

Excuse me, elementary and secondary education.

And so, you know, I think that will move not it will not be a January 1st kind of change that will be made.

You know, I think hiring for that job is going to be a really kind of key decision that that governor, that the next governor makes, whether it's Kalina Fulks or anybody else.

Because, you know, there's always this tendency, this has been true of the last several governors, with the exception of Governor McKee, who had Infante Green and wanted to keep her.

And with the new mayor of Providence, this certainly, I think, changes the dynamic on Smith Hill.

We'll talk about each one, but I think top of the list is what we saw happen with the mayoral race in Providence.

Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with you on this.

David Morales defeating the incumbent mayor, but incumbent mayor had never lost in the city of Providence in a primary.

And I mean, there was almost at times it felt insurmountable advantages that Brett Smiley had, massive financial advantage, all the institutional support.

um and quite honestly you know i i'm working on a column about this john you know the the thing that i find the most remarkable about what david morales was able to do is that they had a a pretty simple kind of theory of the case in this race uh you know i sat down with his campaign manager about a year ago and he looked at me and he said we're gonna get turnout to 26 or 27 000 people Which is a massive number compared to where it was four years ago.

It's like a 20% increase.

And I thought he was crazy.

And, you know, you and I talked about him riding, ripped a bus and then his watch party is right

We'll talk about each one, but I think top of the list is what we saw happen with the mayoral race in Providence.

Yeah, I mean, I completely agree with you on this.

David Morales defeating the incumbent mayor, but incumbent mayor had never lost in the city of Providence in a primary.

And I mean, there was almost at times it felt insurmountable advantages that Brett Smiley had, massive financial advantage, all the institutional support.

um and quite honestly you know i i'm working on a column about this john you know the the thing that i find the most remarkable about what david morales was able to do is that they had a a pretty simple kind of theory of the case in this race uh you know i sat down with his campaign manager about a year ago and he looked at me and he said we're gonna get turnout to 26 or 27 000 people Which is a massive number compared to where it was four years ago.

It's like a 20% increase.

And I thought he was crazy.

And, you know, you and I talked about him riding, ripped a bus and then his watch party is right there in Odieville.

Damon Cohen, is David Morales the candidate? Is he aligned with anyone? I thought I caught at the end of last week some people saying in Providence telling me that they seem to think that the Matos campaign was working in conjunction with the Morales campaign as far as mail ballots.

You know, I think that there may be some level of overlap with a bunch of different people.

I would be surprised with Matos just because I believe Representative Morales is fairly publicly supporting Councilwoman Sue Anderbois in that race in Providence.

But I do think, yeah, I mean, like, look, you know, the challenge that Representative Morales has is because he's been so financially, so outspent, out-raised, you know, he's kind of in this space where he's trying to draw support wherever he can get it.

You'll notice that they're not allowed to coordinate with kind of these outside groups.

But one of the groups that unite here, those are the Hotel Workers Union, they have put in money, $100,000 to support two people, David Morales and then Helena Fulks.

And so you've got this situation where there are kind of strange bedfellows where I think there's a lot of crossover support.

Get ready

Is David Morales the candidate? Is he aligned with anyone? I thought I caught at the end of last week some people saying in Providence telling me that they seem to think that the Matos campaign was working in conjunction with the Morales campaign as far as mail ballots.

You know, I think that there may be some level of overlap with a bunch of different people.

I would be surprised with Matos just because I believe Representative Morales is fairly publicly supporting Councilwoman Sue Anderbois in that.

race uh in providence but i do think yeah i mean like look you know the challenge that that representative morales has is because he's been so financially so outspent out raised uh you know he's kind of in this space where he's trying to draw support wherever he can get it you'll notice that and that now they're not allowed to coordinate with kind of these outside groups but one of the the groups that unite here those are the hotel workers union they have put in money, $100,000 to support two people, David Morales and then Helena Fulks.

And so, you know, you've got this situation where there are kind of strange bedfellows where I think there's a lot of crossover support.

I think that you're going to see, you know, you won't see exit polling, so it's a little anecdotal, but I would not be surprised if a significant percentage of the Morales vote in Providence, whether he wins or loses, A significant percentage of that vote is also Helena Folk's support, which you would not necessarily think, right? You think progressive versus kind of traditional Democrat or even corporate Democrat.

But, you know, that's the nature of kind of weird local elections.

I

Do you think he's done enough to to broaden the message?

Well, you know, I think what he's done a really good job of to maybe blunt some of the criticism of, oh, you're, you know, you're only sort of a democratic socialist.

You're only a defund the police guy, you know, things like that, that he He's had to fight back at this.

What he's done to counteract that argument is be relentlessly positive, right? I think that's been one of the really nice stories about his campaign.

Now, there's an underlying kind of bomb-throwing that happens in the progressive movement when it comes to going after Mayor Smiley.

They know what they're doing when they're trying to attack him for— you know, being too tied to corporate interests or they're attacking his husband.

You know, there is a level of negativity to that.

And what's your take on these sort of out, the major issues, the bridge, the opioids, Two years later, were the consultants, the teams, is everybody right that that's what this election is actually about?

Um, who thought, or who knew, I should say, that a Rhode Island legislator is, uh, serving out their term 1,000 miles from the district?

Well, what's fascinating about this is to, to, to a- to answer that question, uh, apparently a lot of her colleagues.

Uh, State Representative Julie Casimiro, who is not seeking re-election, um, this year, uh, announced on the House floor when she was, when she was, uh, stepping away that she was moving to South Carolina.

And she, um, you know, she caught some, I think, social media flack for that because it was the classic, you know, situation.

Sure, you know, you, you, you represent a blue state, but you're gonna move to a red state.

Uh, you know, uh, the, the, the classic conversation about taxes and things like that.

What I think people did not quite comprehend or realize was that she was going to, or she did in fact move to South Carolina immediately after the legislative session ended.

Wow

Who thought or who knew, I should say, that Rhode Island legislator is serving out their term 1,000 miles from the district?

Well, what's fascinating about this is to answer that question, apparently a lot of her colleagues, State Representative Julie Casamaro, who is not seeking re-election this year, announced on the House floor when she was stepping away that she was moving to South Carolina.

And she caught some, I think, social media flack for that because it was the classic situation.

Sure, you know, you represent a blue state, but you're going to move to a red state.

You know, the classic conversation about taxes and things like that.

What I think people did not quite comprehend or realize was that she was going to or she did, in fact, move to South Carolina immediately after the legislative session ended July 1st.

She she changed her primary address.

But what I'm very intrigued on the betting markets is the race for Providence mayor and also the Republican primary for governor.

What do you make of this poll that came out regarding the mayoral race in Providence and also the controversy over the weekend with Mayor Smiley posting some of his signs with vandalism?

Yeah, I mean, the poll for me sounds in the ballpark, honestly.

I think, you know, four or five points where Mayor Smiley, you know, has a narrow lead.

That sounds about right to me.

That's what I would, you know, would have said probably, you know, six months ago.

I would have said, you know, roughly that's probably how he'll play.

uh be able to to win the race now that poll is great for david morales because it's what what it says for him is hey i can win this thing right i i have i've got a couple of weeks to go let's get over the finish line let's let's go let's go kind of steal this election steal meaning let's go let's win the race not do anything illegal um But, you know, I think Mary Smiley has really spent a lot of money.

Dan McGowan, you also wrote a column on this rear card that showed up in Rhode Island.

What do you make of this poll that came out regarding the mayoral race in Providence and also the controversy over the weekend with Mayor Smiley posting some of his signs with vandalism?

Yeah, I mean, the poll for me sounds in the ballpark, honestly.

I think four or five points where Mayor Smiley has a narrow lead, that sounds about right to me.

That's what I would have said probably six months ago.

I would have said roughly that's probably how he'll be able to win the race.

Now, that poll is great for David Morales because what it says for him is, hey, I can win this thing.

Right.

and dan mcgowan you also wrote a column on this uh rear card that showed up in rhode island

Dan immediately suspected the press release announcing Nicholas Rossi's death was phony.

It was from the official desk of, uh, I, I think it, in that moment, it was from his alleged wife named Louise.

I also just found the tale to be a little bit just off, and I remember I flagged for my editor at the time, and I said, "Look, I don't think we should write anything about this." We did in fact publish the, uh, Associated Press version of just announcing the death, essentially.

And w- we reported it overnight, and it just happens to be that I wake up really early.

I caught it, and I said, "Hey, I'm pulling this down," and we immediately pulled it.

Uh, couldn't have been up for more than, more than four hours.

I would say it might not have been up for 90 minutes.

Some of the other people Louise rings say she sounds German, or even Russian, but Dan is clear about the nationality of this mystery woman.

It

had a certain vibe to it that we thought was like, oh, okay, well, this new record that we're doing kind of has, I think this would fit with it.

And we kind of reimagined the ending of the song entirely Joe went back and did the keyboard player thing where he tweaked everything and I was like, please don't completely transform the song.

Resist the urge to totally turn it into something else.

But the thing with that was he sent this little keyboard demo and I just remember I just started singing.

As soon as I heard it.

And Joe has sent me a few things.

Yeah.

I can't vote for him.

And so and so I think Mayor Smiley does have a little bit of that problem.

It's not just it's easy to say just a Republican, but Mayor Smiley has this reputation of it's a little bit of whether it's more moderate people, you know, in most elections, it's nice to have.

police union endorsement or a fire union endorsement, except that the police union in Providence tends to be, you know, a little bit vulgar, a little bit, you know, not necessarily...

Rough around the edges.

Yeah, not necessarily, you know, in touch with the community of voters that David Morales has.

And so all the people or many of the people supporting Brett Smiley, the fiercest, aren't necessarily the people you want to put on a commercial or you want to put on a mailer.

Can you get an 18, 20, 25-year-old to the polls, does it translate, or are they apathetic?