Dale, tell me about Kat as a young person.

Look, I got to know Kat fairly well throughout her secondary schooling and I also had some connections with her family.

At one stage, my partner was very ill and I had to go to Melbourne quite regularly and my stepson, if you like, would stay with the clerks.

So I had a bit of a background into the family and then I started to teach Kat at school.

She was a really caring person, even at that stage.

I mean, you could see she would really absorb things that you tried to explain to her or talk to her about.

probably believed a little too much sometimes of what I would say.

Now, Dale, you've been here several times with a whole range of different groups.