Yeah, and, and talking about kind of quick wins versus the gold-plated cycleways, I mean, obviously a lot of the COVID pop-up lanes that were do- that Cardiff did a great deal of during the pandemic were done under emergency measures and I don't know if that's even, if that's kind of possible with the way that kind of active travel's delivered in Wales to sort of roll this out in normal times.

I, I think it would be possible, but I think we probably need a bit of creativity, a bit of flexibility.

And with the go...

For me, uh, and I think there may be a broader question about Welsh government and how we think about policy issues and, and change, there does seem to be a tendency to think, oh, we're going to put a really good strategy in place, we're going to put a really good plan in place, and not ask, "What are the ultimate outcomes of this? Are there more people walking and cycling?" 'Cause if there aren't, then you need to think again about the pl- uh, about the strategy, the plan, or what you're trying to do.

Act- ac- active travel in action in, in Cardiff, yeah.

Um, so I, I think there is something here about the lack of focus on outcomes and how many more people are walking and cycling.

And if you were focused there, you might get things that weren't quite as beautifully designed or m- might not be to quite as high a spec.

And I think, I don't know, I think there's perhaps been, I don't know, less of a focus on ... on, on that, and that's kind of slowed things down