And so it's just a toxic mess.

I, I mean, I was saying evangelicalism was a cult many years ago and, and getting screamed at on the internet about it, but I think even just taking a look at this dynamic, right? You say the only biblical way to parent your child is to make sure they obey you, therefore they will obey God, right? If you don't teach a ch- child immediateObedience and compliance to authority.

They're never gonna be a Christian, so then they tie parenting methods to faith.

Then, uh, yeah, they do it in such a way where everyone in the faith community can see if you're utilizing these methods or not based off of how your toddler is responding to you, or even your teenager, and it's like parenting in a fishbowl, so everyone is watching you.

We hear so many stories, right, of people who are like, "If my child was acting out at church, an old woman would come and slip me a copy of a Dr. Dobson book, or they'd pull me aside and say, 'You need to spank your child.'" Like, it was everybody's business, everybody could see, and it was a mark of your commitment to the cult, right? If you can parent your kid in such a way, that means you're fully in.

If you don't parent your c- child in that way, then you're not actually a good Christian.

So to me, that's such a cult dynamic to say, like- Yeah ...

if you want to.

Like, "I have to do what that person, uh, wants me to do, and I have to obey."

Yeah.

I mean, you mentioned, right, like, being in these church communities where the church was like a family, and as a child, the same way you obey your parent...

And by the way, if you're asking, why do people still wanna spank kids in this day and age? I think it's due to Dr.

Dobson, because in 1970 is when he published his first book called "Dare to Discipline," and in it, he talks about there's all these up-and-coming child psychologists, people like Fred Rogers, Erik Erikson, Margaret McFarland, who are doing this thing called permissive parenting.

He's like, "Because of them," and basically, they're just doing social, emotional, intelligent parenting.

"Because of them, we are seeing all the problems in America.

Yeah