Like how does that interaction change? And like, where's the accountability sit in that model?

Yeah, I mean, let me go back.

First of all, it's the view of the human, the professional view.

You know, if AI takes more work, what happens to the professional? The good and the bad news about security is I think there's zero security people that don't have way too much work to do and feel overwhelmed.

And they desperately want to stay safe.

And I think they've got probably less than half of the resourcing at any given point in time they have to actually stay safe.

So the first thing we're trying to get the security professional from point of being like overwhelmed, just taking one more thing off their plate.

What what are those points of nuance in your space relative to like an abnormal or you know, some of the traditional players like you help make that tangible?

And you were a big part of the reCAPTCHA team as well.

That's right.

So, you know, as part of this journey, we started building what we call the user protection platform at Google, which is a broader set of people and teams that I ran that were responsible for defending users across all of Google's products, as well as broadly in the world.

So how do we keep more people safe? How do we sell services to companies like Zoom and PayPal and even other cloud scalers in order to keep their users safe? And it started with, you know, phishing and malware, and then the next thing, if you phish someone's password, what do you do? I used it in credential stuffing.

I used it in carding.

I used it in synthetic identity.

How do we stop that? It's by using something like reCAPTCHA to look at the behavior on the page and determine whether it's malicious or not, legitimate or not.

[laughs]

So, I mean, what's your optimistic view on how to actually put a stop to it? Because the picture that you've painted so far, which, by the way, I totally agree with, is pretty grim.

Yeah, I think that, and look, I am an optimist, right? A little bit crazy.

It's always a hard thing to be like, hey, I'm going to rebuild this thing over time.

But look, one thing is, I think someone's got to solve it.

One thing that makes me really happy about this mission is like, someone's got to do it.

So it's not a solved problem.

Our premise here, though, is really to investigate every attack.

How do I pierce through the noise?