Why is this notion of state violence so useful when we think about BLM and its ability to sort of understand some of the anti-blackness, some of the black violence that we see around the world, sort of connecting all of these different sort of cases together through this concept of state violence? Why is it so important to use that term and that concept, in your opinion?

It's essential because it makes it very plain that we are talking about Black life and Black death.

And we are talking about the specific vulnerability, the disproportionate vulnerability of Black people to violence at the hands of the state.

And so there is a very important way of thinking about this that Ruth Wilson Gilmore has offered to us.

She describes state violence, and this is a quote here, as the state sanctioned or extra legal production and exploitation of group differentiated vulnerability.

And that is an incredibly important sort of framing, right? You know, this idea of group differentiated vulnerability.

This is a framing that you can find used within the movement.

And many of these intellectual traditions, these kind of creative artistic traditions are thinking and imagining what does that mean? How can we think beyond what we already understand in the kind of current framings of the world to think about Black life and to imagine Black life differently, I think.