What I'd be curious about is what do you see as from a marketing perspective, those stages and what helps a law firm leap from one stage to the next?

The biggest element that helps a law firm go from one stage to the next, assuming that is what they want to do.

And by they, I mean whoever is controlling the firm is the movement of that person from that principle from lawyer to CEO.

Right.

And you can have multiple equity partners, but there's got to be someone who moves into that CEO role.

Which means letting go of that lawyering stuff, which is really, really hard.

There are some lawyers who recognize that they're good lawyers, but potentially great CEOs.

But Do you have a thought on firms that are maybe in the storm right now trying to just generate leads? Is there one path they should be looking at more than the other? And is there a certain point that a law firm should say, okay, now I should really start to consider some of the longer term branding and marketing? it's a cash