And what else did you do? You had Benedict Yellen.

Yeah, the original friend of ours from Hawaii.

eventually moved to olympia too and he and i started a very arty art rock band like we had songs in german and stuff and but just like again it was like it was kind of like when we were kids trying to like think about what kind of band we were in or you know what we'd be in the future we spent more of our time worrying about that than we did actually playing shows so it eventually just kind of collapsed at the same time a lot of things in the northwest were just getting dark you know like in 93 kurt killed himself and then there were other people that we knew in the scene they were just kind of like up and dying you know heroin overdoses suicides uh just weird and it just got very gloomy and so by ninety-four Jason and I were both just ready to just get the fuck out of there and so a friend of ours another mutual friend happened to live in Austin or moved to Austin the big attraction with Austin at the time was that we wouldn't know many people from there it was just kind of like this place that we'd never even been to Austin we'd never visited Austin we didn't know anything about it but it had this kind of like sunny appeal And I think especially for me, I missed the weather of Hawaii.

You know, like the Northwest is just raining all the time.

And so the idea of like going to somewhere that was kind of like sunny and warm was also another kind of a big plus.

It was definitely a place that accepted us before i don't know if america's really accepted us so you know

yeah there came a point where we were doing a lot more touring overseas and we kind of felt that and this was by by about like the fifth album or so we kind of got the feeling that people didn't get us in america anymore it just felt like if that was the way it was going to be, then fuck it.

We're just going to play more shows overseas.