can call us nerds, it's okay.

Well, it's always tricky to communicate technical nuts and bolts policy issues to non-specialists.

And when you're thinking about a product like the ESN, which from the perspective of nerds like you, Richard, is a derivative project of the covered bond, in order to communicate that, you'll often have to begin from the idea of what a covered bond is.

But when it comes to policy change and change in general, I think that stories are important and narratives and policymaking matter a lot.

And so you can achieve momentum behind a policy project without getting into the fundamentals of over-flateralization ratios and the HQLA eligibility of an ESN being essential to drive treasury investors, which will increase the liquidity of the market, etc.

You can think about putting it forward that in Europe, we have a financing system for SMEs, which is based on bank loans.

It's something like 70 to 80% of European businesses, European finance is channeled through banks to SMEs.

What about you?