What's going on here?

I think Jarlath Burns has probably got to the kernel of the issue, Joe.

I think it is about money.

I think within the GAA, certainly at county level, uh, the horses have been spooked by the potential bill that there is to integrate the intercounty structure and to bring certainly the female team's standards around the charter and the level of preparation up to some level of equalization, uh, to where the male, the intercounty hurling and Gaelic football is right now.

Obviously, Jarlath Burns has referenced the 45 million, and that has probably doubled since the start of the decade.

Even, even after that, it was only 30 million a few years ago.

Obviously, with inflation, it has soared.

You're gonna have to sacrifice some of the resources you have," type thing?

What do you make of Gerald Burns, the GAA president, saying today that there was a legitimate fear that an integration motion, uh, for GAA delegates at special Congress next month was set to be voted down? Do you think is that likely to have been the case?

Uh, is a possibility, Matt, because of the fears over, uh, finance, the gap in fi- in funding the intercounty, the integrated intercounty structure.

Uh, there were certainly fears around that, and not recent fears, by the way.

Fears that were expressed towards the end of last year at various county conventions, uh, that were reported on at the time that, uh, this was all moving too fast and the financial question.

But how that gap would be bridged between player charter and the team supports that ladies football and camogie currently get compared to men.

And, uh, that's what spooked the horses, Matt, for want of a better word.

[sniffs] I'm not sure whether it would've been voted down, but I think there would've lo- been a lot of caution, a lot of hesitancy.

Uh, even, even if the rates that were being paid and expenses to the women had to be increased to match the men, surely it wouldn't have res- resulted in doubling the annual bill to the GAA.

What, what, what's your sense of, um, the Australians, their attitude to Irish players? Like, are, are they going after things more aggressively now or less so? Or what, what's your read on it?

I would think, Joe, that Oisín Mullin's progression for Geelong has probably piqued more interest here.

The fact, as you mentioned at the outset, that he has developed into one of the best taggers, man markers in the AFL.

He's detailed for some of the best opposition players, and he has done, by all accounts, he has done extremely well on them.

And that's, that's pretty quickly.

So that's 2023 he went over.

He's into his fourth year now.

Sure.

That's a pretty rare thing.

It's rare, although in the more modern era you see players like Patrick Horgan now, TJ Reid, that other great Kilkenny icon, that current Kilkenny icon, who are stretching their careers, and that's through better strength and conditioning and, you know, better diet and rehabilitation, all of those things.

But for DJ to start in 1989 and finish in 2006 and be at the peak of the game and at the very top of the game for so long, with some interruptions, really was an extraordinary achievement given some of the injuries and some of the treatment that would've been dished out.

Let's say the rules of hurling in that era, certainly the early '90s, right through the '90s, it was a roughhouse game at times, and the rules would not have protected players, especially players of DJ Carey's caliber who brought speed and they just brought a, a touch of stardust to everything that he did.

He was probably the first big superstar of the modern era of Gaelic games, and his development and his growth as a player coincided with the GAA's embrace of commercialism, sponsorship, and all of those elements that we see now and maybe take for granted.

But in the early 1990s, sponsorship was only coming on the front of jerseys, and it was only in the middle of the decade that the All-Ireland Hurling and Football Championships were actually sponsored.

So DJ's arrival as a player to rise to the peak of those powers coincided with this.

An exciting player, above all, a very clean player.

Do you agree with Tomás, we haven't seen anything quite like that?

No, I don't think, I don't think we have.

I think this is the most universally welcomed All-Ireland title that I've seen, certainly in football, and by extension, probably hurling.

Obviously, Claire in 1995 was something really, really special.

But just the decibel level around Croke Park yesterday when Darragh Burns' goal went in, it was reminiscent of Kevin McManaman in 2011.

I felt something in my ears with the noise, the wall of noise that greeted.

And the stadium, the stands shook a little bit, as they did in 2011 too.

It's, it's on the precipice of getting ugly for Mayo, and they hang in there.

You're as, you're as, might as well lose by 20 points as lose by one.

Yeah, I, I, I, I don't see them losing by 20 points.

I see them get- getting, getting pretty close, and I see them taking the same word, the same approach as the last day.

That's the game that suits Mayo.

That high-pressure game, creating as much chaos around the field, broken field runners, as much as that, trying to get Kerry, unsettle them, take them out of their patterns.

Kerry will love to play it slow.

They can play it that way, obviously, and it suits them at times.

They're not even bothering with it.

You might hear Damien Lawlor, uh, in the background, but it's, uh, a big tradition.

Yeah, it's a big tradition, and obviously it was at halftime, uh, before.

But obviously with, uh, there's no minor match, there's no buildup, so it's a lot earlier.

I'm probably lost a little bit in the crowd.

The place isn't even half full, I'd say.

The Hill, yes, there's obviously people, but there's a lot that aren't out here now.

John is clapping here.

[laughs]

Um, how do you see that battle going?

Well, Tomás mentioned the 70% of scores coming from that full forward line, and that, that is the case.

Ryan O'Donoghue is 251 this year, and Coby McDonald is 1, 125.

His consistency in the range of scores and the threat he carries.

Interesting that Tomás would pitch Jason Foley with Ryan O'Donoghue.

He is the obvious threat.

But pace-wise, Jason Foley is, uh, wonderful.

Yeah.

Yeah

... or Shane, Shane Murphy.

That's a great opportunity.

At a time when Dublin are just starting to squeeze, and that's a breakaway from a block by Davey Byrne on David Clifford, who's trying to get a two-point shot away.

It's not going great for him at that particular moment, and Kerry, or Dublin sweep forward, and Conor Callahan tries to side-foot it in.

Shane, Shane Murphy saves it to go six up, and then you have the goal shortly after that.

But then there's other opportunities there.

Do you know?

Yeah, yeah.

We even...

You know, similar conditions.

Swirling breeze coming in, into the Hill end.

Dublin played into it in the second half.

Four years ago it was Kerry, and obviously that monster Sean O'Shea free from 50 meters that, uh, which, which won the game.

And obviously Kerry had a bit more to spare this time coming down the stretch, but similarly, Dublin threw everything at Kerry.

Yeah.

So is there somebody there sticking out, an ex-Galway person or someone outside of Galway? I don't know.

I, I, I'm not sure there is there.

I think they may have to, to look beyond.

It's not, uh, uh, there, there isn't an obvious heir in that regard.

So, uh, I think goalkeeping has been a problem during the Pauric Joyce era.

While Conor Gleeson has had some qualities, and he obviously came up and kicked that winning score, uh, in the 2024 Connacht final.

By and large, and we discussed the kickouts here earlier, has been an issue, that slow, that slowed down service and the...

Um, sent me on, sent me on them yesterday.

Yeah.

But since then, I thought they would've rocked up with- There's two- ... a different way of playing.

Or a- Sorry ... a plan B.

Whereas plan B at the minute is, if plan A doesn't work, make it bloody work.

[laughs] But there's two ways of looking at it, right? So let's say they go down and they play Kerry and they win, and they play them in the Leigh Cup- Mm ...

and they win.

That strategy is like, "Wow, it's working," right? That's, that's hitting our best numbers with that kind of style, right? The question really is, when they played the other teams that they've been beaten against, was it the strategy, or was it actually not fulfilling the strategy? Well, I think, because if you look at the Cork game, I don't know, we didn't get to see the [laughs] full thing, but Cork rock up, hold onto the ball.

You just going against all my votes, is it? [laughs]

Yeah.

Croke Park did not come and say, "You have to play in Croke Park." They can't do that, and that bridge has already been crossed, obviously, in Newbridge and Carrigan Park, and Louth went to Inniskeen.

Um, the, the capacity for Parnell Park was around 8,500.

Season ticket holders for Dublin and Donegal would be at the maximum, so that's around 3,000 each.

That brings you up to 6,000.

By the time you get tickets into the hands of the players, management, sponsors, administrators, whoever else around, you might've had 1,000 tickets on general sale for that game at that stage.

Now, Louth were faced with the same choice against Armagh, and they went ahead with Inniskeen because they felt they've already played three games there.

Um, give us a quick word on this one, Colm.

Yeah.

Croke Park did not come and say, "You have to play in Croke Park." They can't do that, and that bridge has already been crossed, obviously, in Newbridge and Carrigan Park, and Louth went to Inniskeen.

Um, the, the capacity for Parnell Park was around 8,500.

Season ticket holders for Dublin and Donegal would be at the maximum, so that's around 3,000 each.

That brings you up to 6,000.

By the time you get Tickets into the hands of the players, management, sponsors, administrators, whoever else around.

You might've had 1,000 tickets on general sale for that game at that stage.

Um, give us a quick word on this one, Colm.

Having lost the first two games call them like to Westmeath and then to Cork and you know Cork went down to 14 men and of course everyone was saying the same day when Kerry went down to 14 men like Donegal the word was no team's ever going to win again with 14 men but did you see improvements last Saturday evening that would have given you a bit of confidence going forward for Castle Bear this weekend, or any big change?

Definitely.

Definitely.

Sometimes circumstances are that.

I'm not so sure that if you're down to 14, if you're down to 14 players against Donegal, you're having a chance because they are the best at playing a possession game and just retaining the ball and recycling.

Me, just don't play that way.

That's not in their nature.

What way do you see it going?

would have got to the stage where Dublin didn't want to play in Croke Park and wanted the home advantage of Parnell Park? Just...

Matt, never.

It's just almost beyond belief that the manager of Dublin would say we would prefer to go.

Now, obviously, it's a crowd issue.

There was 16,000 at the Dublin-Louth game in the first round, which was a really, really low crowd.

And I was there that day and I would have felt there was more from Louth than Dublin there.

Better Dublin crowd in Cavan yesterday for their Round 2B fixture.

Extraordinary that they're now in round three.

So I, I guess the first point, Colm, is were Cork screwed out of it? And then the second point is, just on a general level, was James Owens too fussy? So were Cork screwed over here?

No, I don't think, I don't think they were, Joe.

When you consider how close Limerick, uh, were to getting, probably were to getting a penalty.

If you're giving a penalty at one end, obviously with Kyle Hayes wrapping his arm around Brian Hayes, even though Brian Hayes is leaning in, I think the wraparound is always going to, uh, of the arm, the forearm, is always going to result in a penalty there.

Niall O'Leary does something similar with Shane O'Brien at the other end, and you think that's going to be a penalty.

Maybe, maybe Shane O'Brien is leaning in a little bit more than Brian Hayes was at the other end, and that's where the decision lies.

But they were certainly very, very lucky not to concede a penalty there.

And, and there was almost a feeling, God, does Shefflin really wanna sign up for another three years or four years, or however long it takes to rebuild the team? And in comes Micheál Donoghue, and look where we are.

So I guess the first point, Colm, is were Cork screwed out of it? And then the second point is, just on a general level, was James Owens too fussy? So were Cork screwed over here?

No, I don't think, I don't think they were, Joe.

When you consider how close Limerick, uh, were to getting, probably were to getting a penalty.

If you're giving a penalty at one end, obviously with Kyle Hayes wrapping his arm around Brian Hayes, even though Brian Hayes is leaning in, I think the wraparound is always going to, uh, of the arm, the forearm, is always going to result in a penalty there.

Niall O'Leary does something similar with Shane O'Brien at the other end, and you think that's going to be a penalty.

Maybe, maybe Shane O'Brien is leaning in a little bit more than Brian Hayes was at the other end, and that's where the decision lies.

But they were certainly very, very lucky not to concede a penalty there.

And, and there was almost a feeling, God, does Shefflin really wanna sign up for another three years, or four years, or however long it takes to rebuild the team? And in comes Micheál Donoghue, and look where we are.

What he's done subtly here, what he's built in Armagh is really brilliant, Colm.

It really is, Joe.

And that's, I suppose he takes an interest in a lot of levels in Armagh right through the academy.

So he is really, really on top of everything over a long period of time.

He's obviously there.

since 2014 as a coach and then 2015.

And you mentioned the difficulties of the last three years.

And that's the subtle change, I think.

Yeah.

Obviously, I'm not saying he's equivalent to Michael Donnellan, but right now his skip, his step, his daring, the way he went for gaps, got through them, and that beautiful side-footed finish in both halves, to me was Michael Donnellan-esque.

He has so much pace.

It's strange to me that he hasn't been on the Roscommon team before this in the last couple of years.

He was obviously doing well for, for UL at different times.

But, uh, very, very strange that he hasn't come, hasn't come through.

So, uh, all around, it's a great story for Roscommon.

As a matter of interest, over what kind of period have you noticed some of those areas going a little downhill?

We are now absolutely essential if you want to watch the Football Championship."

No doubt a statement of intent by pushing RTÉ back with the request and saying, "No, this is our, this is our territory now.

Saturday afternoons, part of Saturday evening as well, that's ours." I thought maybe they would yield, but I think this is planting roots for the future.

There's no doubt Kerry-Donegal is a game that everybody would have wanted to see.

I'm not surprised because when Kerry played Mayo in Killarney on the corresponding weekend three years ago, the day the record went, uh, the, the long, the 28-year record went, Mayo won that game.

That game was shown on GAA Plus.

Little bit of consternation.

The, these provincial finals, in particular the Kerry one, are suffering.

We got a pretty lively game to match.

Yeah.

The crowd is just amazing in Páirc Uí Chaoimh every, every time now, Joe.

And, uh, you know, you think back to Dublin football more than 20 years ago and then their, their climb towards 2011 and a little bit beyond, and then it started to taper off.

Well, this Cork crowd, even after the disappointment of the last two seasons, not, not winning the All-Ireland, obviously, they continued to turn out in the droves.

Three hours before, before the game, down around the marina, place was just a sea of red.

That's beforehand.

I do think John is not in the minority as such, but I think that level of passion has kind of dimmed, and people have largely accepted the status quo.

I think Louth will

willLouth will get a bounce from Gavin Devlin as manager.

I think he's a coach that they always enjoyed, uh, playing under when he was there with Mickey Harte, and, uh, he stayed on obviously for a position, uh, with the academies.

And they were very happy to get him back when he came back, and that was done and dusted early.

And they finished the league like a train.

They really did.

Beating Derry, beating Tyrone, and beating Derry, albeit in RD, but they still beat them and convincingly.

Yeah

But you certainly seem to think what you saw yesterday could be fairly significant.

Well, Kerry were behind by 21 points at one stage in that game.

Now, at what point do, do you attribute that to just being a lack of energy and maybe a lack of disengagement? Twenty-one points, even in the current game, is a yawning, is a huge gap.

One way or the other, it's a huge gap, and it has to be down to more than energy.

Now, Kerry looked very good against Mayo.

They looked, uh, two weeks ago in Tralee.

They looked very, very good at times against Armagh, and there's no doubt, I appreciate, come back down on the bus from Armagh after a really tough game, and to pull it all together and get back up to Croke Park, uh, to play Donegal, who have the intent from last year's All-Ireland final, to put in a performance, whatever else.

[laughs]

Okay.

That's my read of it.

There was obviously a clamor for more aggressive front foot football, getting away from, from last year, and obviously the two-pointers, and we've all referenced and quoted the number of two-pointers that Mayo scored last year by compared to this year, three in six championship games.

Now they're up to twenty-five, and they're leading the two-point count in Division One.

But they've also lost two games very, very heavily, and that obviously, that risk and reward strategy that they have introduced, uh, has been costly because Kerry just breezed through them, as did Donegal, I felt, with injections of pace and angled running and all of that.

So really, they may have to reset, and I think the Mayo public are going to have to obviously accept that, that the, the way to play the, the beautiful game and playing, playing attacking football is all very well.

But there was obviously some merit in what the previous management and previous managements were doing with regard to making them difficult to beat because Mayo beat Kerry in the league last year.

Mm.