Mm.

There's this, as you say, this repeating it back, which is, at some extent is, can be quite patronizing.

Yeah? Um, but where do I go with it now? It, and what comes up for me is a talk by a lady, a TED Talk by, I think her name's Chelsea Headley, uh, it's about 10 ways to have better communication, and towards the end she makes the point, she said, "There's a lot of talk about nodding, aha, and those sorts of things in listening." And she said, "It's crap." And that made me sit up and take notice.

I, "What, what's she gonna say now?" And she said, and it, it real plays to your point, um, Jean, if you are truly listening to someone you don't need any of that.

They know.

And so I think the bigger difference is performing or doing listening versus being a listener.

Oh, that's nice.

Right? So the pause or silence, um, one of, one of the things...