You've got... no ability to influence them to some degree depending on the circumstance what do you find helps people actually make sense of it so they're like well what about because the thing is you just like uh peter crine says it really well he had a similar story if you know that story of um he had an ex and they left and he left and he had this big breakthrough when he realized i don't know that was the answer i just don't know and i will i could potentially never know of it i could never make sense of it so how do you help people process that make sense of that understand that let go of that or whatever

terms that you use I've got a story from my life to help with this one.

So the idea that I like here is Zagernik loops.

Have you heard of Zagernik loops before? So it's a Harvard psychologist in the, I think, 70s.

I might be wrong.

It might be the 80s.

But I think 70s.

Hardy?

I know, right?

But, but, like, all the chairs, the first one, all the chairs were lined up perfectly.

There was, like, six of them in two rows of three, and they were perfect.

The middle one, all of them were, like, collapsed on the ground.

And then the third pile, they were all put together in this interesting matrix where they were unfolded but, like, stacked all crazy.

And you said that the first one was a really naive version of faith where everything's perfect, God is love, everything, like, happens according to his will, everything's great.

Second one is when that gets shattered, and they're all just all over the ground.

Okay