So I wonder if you would say kind of how you would describe pilgrimage and what does it, what does it kind of mean for you to be a pilgrim and to go on a pilgrimage?

Yeah, it's such a difficult question to answer in a way because obviously a pilgrimage has an end goal, so to speak.

There's a place you're making your pilgrimage toward.

And again, being raised Protestant, I was well aware of John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress.

There's this idea that a pilgrimage doesn't have to be physical in a location.

It can be a spiritual experience or journey that you're making.

But it can also be, in the Catholic tradition, quite wonderfully, an actual thing that involves your body.

I am.