And it actually flows great into my next question, which is what drew you specifically to the world of boards and corporate governance? And why has that become something that you're so deeply passionate about?

Well, I think one of the things...

Having been in that realm, if you will, for so long, I didn't actually think much about board work as being something.

I didn't climb a ladder very traditionally.

Traditionally, 90% of the workforce stays in the individual contributor realm.

Only 10% of the workforce goes into this sort of management track, if you will.

And if you're going to go into that track, you might start it in your late 20s and then you're sort of like by your mid 40s, you're pretty far up there.

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