Mm-hmm.

But it's base, has bases in science.

So what it does is it brings together a lot of very diverse people who have solidarity around certain value issues.

They recognize society's going in the wrong direction, capitalism is not helping, has created lots of harm socially and ecologically, that growth, the growth economy or growth mania, as Mission called it, needs to be deconstructed, taken apart, and we need a different direction.

So it has to have a very, very strong anti-growth element and an anti-capitalist element, I would say, is part of, of degrowth and what degrowth is about.

At the same time, degrowth has then got into problems, I would say.

So I wrote an article, What's, What's Wrong With Degrowth, trying to discuss some of these issues, which is about creating too broad an agenda, trying to pull in people who actually are pro-growth in some elements, you know, whether it's for development of developing countries or wherever, which means that they end up being pro-growth, pro-capitalist, which is a problem.

Okay.