Uh, and I just thought, "Oh, yeah, brilliant, finally got some freedom to do your own thing." And so hit me, how did it start, Clive, you know?

With Deep Down, [clears throat] well, as you say, I spent a long time at Seresin, so it was 12 years, and it was, like, the most formative times of my life in terms of making wine, et cetera.

It was the first serious, you know, job I actually ever had, and I was thrown in at the deep end at the age of, well, 30 or something like that.

And maybe I'd been out of university for two and a half years and got this gig that was just ridiculous, and it was sink or swim time.

Um, and yeah, absolutely loved every moment of it, you know.

And 12 years later, yeah, the business changed and, uh, and, and Michael was looking to, uh, downsize basically.

And so-

Right.