Mm-hmm.

And the, the names of the churches kind of changed around a bit.

So, and he, I think that represented a bit of an elevation in the family from out of poverty, as far as I can see, which, I mean, being a, a minister in a, in a church doesn't sound like winning the lottery, but it's something if you're, you're, you're living hand to mouth.

And, uh, so I think as a result of him being a minister, that meant that my grandfather, I think, managed to get a scholarship to go to the university, and then my father hit, hit harder times and he, and had to come to London.

And, uh, so that's what I mostly know.

I know relatively little about my mother's family.

I, I knew them growing up, uh, you know, her mother, my aunt, and a, and a, and a great aunt as well.

So that, I think, was a surprise to you when you first saw it, wasn't it?