So take me to the beginning about how this whole, um, movement for wanting to start a c- uh, a program to help men kind of all begin, and tell me a little bit more about what Booze Vacation means to you.

Sure.

Yeah, I, yeah, like a lot of ventures, definitely scratching my own itch.

Um, started drinking in high school.

I'm Gen X, I'm 53.

Um, a little less common with the, the later, latest generations, but yeah, I started drinking in high school, played sports, went to college, played sports, hung out with buddies, um, drank alcohol.

G- went into corporate America, you know, kind of worked my way up there.

How do you get past the defensiveness and denial to help them see what's really actually going on?