they

often think about things like the United Nations COP negotiations.

or emissions targets and international agreements.

And while those are obviously important, there's a very material political economy behind any energy transition.

Somebody has to manufacture the solar panels, the batteries, the electric vehicles, somebody has to build the infrastructure, and then someone also has to finance it.

And you're right, China has become extraordinarily important across all of those areas.

And the scale is really striking.

Do you think that Western policymakers misunderstand how China sees global governance? If so, what do you think is the biggest misunderstanding?

When people talk about just transition in Malaysia, what does that actually mean in practice? Because we know globally the concept is evolving and different countries are interpreting it quite differently.

Before answering that directly, I should mention that I'm coming to this research from a joint research project looking at these very issues in Malaysia and have been working with a really wonderful team of researchers in Malaysia who I want to give a shout out to.

That is led by Dr. Nafri Yanita Dallin.

at the University of Technology Mara in Malaysia and her research team, which includes Dr. Aslan Azmi and Dr. Sridhar Indira.

And so I should say, you know, my understanding of these issues is really rooted in research that they have led and that we have engaged on to be able to examine a just transition in the Malaysia context.

So with that in mind, I think it's fair to say that in Malaysia, a just transition is still very much an evolving concept.

It's not yet as fully defined or institutionalized as it might be in some European or Western context.

So based on your research, what do you think are the main barriers to achieving a truly transition for workers?