Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.You know, I was kind of started doing some jingles, started doing some, you know, actual budget recording stuff.

I was subbing on a million Broadway shows.

But I was always looking for, like, what do I actually like? What do I wanna do? And so, like, I, I started a group right out of college.

It was, it was, it was like the New New York Trumpet Ensemble, you know, 'cause I started, you know, when you listen to jazz, you start getting, you know, you, you follow the progression, and you get to some pretty out, free music.

And Ornette Coleman and all, you know, just follow the kind of the trajectory of history without going back.

It gets pretty avant-garde, and I was followed that train and got...

Cr- crack a note on the trumpet, "Oh man, that's a terrible trumpet player." [laughs]