Wow.

And then we have two daughters who live close to us.

In total, we have five grandchildren.

One of the girls is foster care parenting, and so we have extra grandkids here and there, and we love what they're doing.

We really appreciate their hearts in that.

So we've been married for almost 47 years, and we never thought that this would be a part of our life.

And so when Joey came to us, it really changed everything.

Yes

What do you recommend for a parent? What's the most effective way to advocate for your child while maybe also having realistic expectations of what is and is not possible within a church situation?

Well, I will take this and I will have the same answer for church.

And I would have the same answer for how you would deal with schools and doctors and therapists.

And that is to go in as one who wants to learn, as a parent who wants to learn.

Let me give an example.

When Joey was little, on his IEP, his individual educational plan, it was to tie his shoes.

Well, his motor skills with his hands are not that great.

I mean, we are the primary advocates for our child, but we need to do whatever you think we need to be doing to help him achieve what he can achieve.

But you, um, what was your experience like when you realized that your parenting journey was going to be different than maybe what you had imagined it to be? I'll let whichever one of you wants to start, go ahead and tell us your story.

Well, you know, sometimes you might know ahead of time and sometimes you might not.

And we did not know that we would have a child with special needs.

And just to maybe tag off of what you said, you know, I did just post something recently about this influencer and all that has gone on.

And one of the things that he said was just the darkness that has happened surrounding them because of, what they have chosen.

And I thought it was really twofold because there's such a darkness and ending the life of of one and yet you know we have to be so careful too to not be judgmental in a way that um we don't know where they are spiritually you know and so i want to i i've just i'm committed to pray for this couple because i think there's going to be um a consequence in their heart even maybe not right now because they feel so sure of what they're doing and what they've done is correct And so I'm just really committed to praying for them and that the Lord would teach them because this is a hard decision.

And, you know, we were Christians when we had our son.

Your