[laughs]

Or trying to shame people out of political beliefs or ideologies that are, you know, a little bit not towing a certain kind of line.

And it's like, and that's, that's just ineffective, right? It's, it's not just...

It's, it's, it's like, well, why would you think that not, you know, that that shame would work with, you know, this other grownup, but, you know, it's wrong to do with your kid? You have to, like, have everyone well-regulated and then have a real conversation, and that also very rarely happens online.

But it, but it's kind of fascinating watching that happen, and then also watching what happens with shame in a, uh, when there's aspects of our society or corners of the internet where there's absolutely no shame, um, and from our political leaders oftentimes there's absolutely no shame about their behavior, um, too.

Then so it's...

I, I think also what happens is...

Mm-hmm

[laughs] I mean, but this is a trial, right?

All of, uh, free time, no screen time in the summer.

Like, well, actually, it's funny 'cause we're not a super screen-oriented family, but I'm driving these kids around 'cause I've got this sort of like, you know, four parents taking care of four boys alternating days thing going on till camp gets started.

And, and this one kid was like, "You know, like I, I really ne- I'm going to, you know, sleepaway camp.

I really need the break from, from screen time." [laughs] And I was like, "That is sweet," like this other kid in the car who actually has this level of self-awareness, um, I think around it.

I think it's also how do we model it? It's like, you know, are we, you know, how in, how are we relating to our screens when we're going fishing or going hiking or going camping? Like, are, are we putting them away? Are we hanging onto them? Are we bringing books and board games and cards, or are we bringing our screens, right? I mean, all of that I think is important in terms of how are, are we modeling appreciation and connection with each other and connection with nature if, you know, that's part of our, our, our summer values too, I think is really important.

So I...

Any thoughts on that?