So yeah, what, what does all that translate to in terms of your experience of that wedding? Because I worry I'd be hitting that [laughs] free bar at that wedding pretty hard.

Yeah, I just landed, um, like, God, I believe it was, uh, the end of 2024.

Uh, it was, like, uh, Dec- it was September.

I'd just landed.

My daughter and I, I got a call, and it was... 'Cause we had been struggling because we didn't have a character.

We had, uh, someone with mind control in the movie.

We had the, the metamorphosis Peter Parker pro- um, plot.

Yeah.

Hmm

... new relationship or w- what, what is, what, what do we, how are they meeting each other in the world where they don't know anything about Peter Parker? Um, but God, Ned, there's just a gravitational pull to that friendship which, uh, it's really hard to deny.

Even, um, even when Peter is not coming clean with Ned, um, there's a natural rapport, a natural friendship.

And obviously there's something to be said there about, you know, I think, you know, people of- often say that male friendships, you know, you can, they can, they can go silent for a few years and then you, they can, you can pick them up almost immediately [chuckles], um, uh, like where the last conversation ended.

Uh, and I think there's, there's a truth to that that you can see in that, in that relationship, uh, that they can just sort of fall right back into, um, the easy grooves even if Ned doesn't quite get the groove that he's falling into.

Even though, you know, whether people, whether you wanted to believe that it's muscle memory or some other magic that's going on, or is it just their friendship, uh, breaks the bonds of magic, uh, you know, transcends it.

It's up for, it's up for debate and I wouldn't ruin, uh, I wouldn't ruin it any more than saying what I just said.

I kinda like it

So, but like those, those couple of days, obviously knowing the circumstances that you were aware of, how were you able to kind of focus just on the task at hand and keep a good, the best attitude you could? Do you know what I'm saying? Yes, of course I know what you're

saying.

Yeah, I mean, first of all, at that point, I had known for a bit.

I had time to process it.

You know, it had been a surprise to me and to many people in the building when it first happened.

But at this point, also, you know, Paige Herschel found out at the same time that she wasn't going to be coming back.

She had, you know, her last day was the day before mine.

Like how how does that work? How do you process that? How does that feel for you in this era versus 20 years ago?

And so how can technology interrupt that or impact that? And what should we be doing to use that connection and attachment as it relates to technology?

Yeah, absolutely.

So that's the very first point in my sermon this weekend, but it's also a part of chapter one in the book because it's really important for us before we even get into setting the parental controls.

Number one, we need to understand our kids.

And number two, we need to understand the technology companies, because when you understand how our kids are constructed, how God created them.

neurologically, emotionally, relationally, then you start to see their tactics more clearly because they clearly understand our children.

They know how they are made.

observations there?

If you don't mind, for folks that don't know you, maybe give us a bit of an introduction.

First of all, Ben, just thank you.

I know we interacted actually in person.

We've actually met each other in person, which I can't say about a lot of people in this space.

We met in Idaho last year, which was really cool.

But I just so respect and appreciate the balance and the intelligence that you bring to this with your background.

I think it's just awesome.

Yeah, that's right.

Really?

We had no idea.

Wow.

In utero, we did not know.

Um, it wasn't until after a bit of an emergency C-section that the neonatologist came out to us and said, "Well, Baby A and Baby B," right, all these kind of things, and he said, "We're pretty sure that Baby B has Down syndrome.

We're 90% sure." Hm.

And that was the first we even knew.

Mm-hmm.