Yeah.

So, yeah.

So it's, it's very different now, you know? And again, I, I think there have been so many stories of, again, um, what we would consider, like, normies, right? Like, just regular people, um, people on vacation, um, you know, uh, getting caught up, uh, for a social media post, having their electronics seized and searched.

I mean, it's a very, it's a very different landscape than it was even three, four, you know, five years ago.

Um, and you know, I think, I mean, and you've chronicled this really well, you know, the pushback, you know, the m- the Luddite clubs, like all the different ways that people are kind of resisting these intrusions of big tech.

Um, and again, like, I don't, as someone who's been paying attention to this stuff for a really long time, I've never seen anything the s- uh, along the scope of, say, the, how much people hate Flock and Flock cameras right now.

Um, you know, I think there's a danger that people start to understand, um, Flock becoming synonymous with automated license plate readers, um, and things like that, or there's a danger that people start to believe that the right way to go is to, uh, have more, uh, restrictions or more regulations around them rather than, than to abolish them.

Imagine that.

Okay.

So there's a guy, I didn't even know it was a guy, but there's like a, we rate dogs account.

And I think 99 to a hundred percent of their content is posting images and cute comments of dogs.

Yeah.

You know, like every dog is rated, you know, 11 or 12 out of 10.

Yeah, exactly.

It's just like cute sort of, you know, more innocent time of the internet kind of social media content.

But I was wondering, if the framing is always in the positives, is it incidents like that Super Bowl thing, which essentially reveal the true framing? Is that essentially what's going on here? Is that certain actions like this dog commercial essentially reveal the true framing of this thing? Or is it something else that's going on? Because something that's worth struggling with a little bit is to know where, how this framing is operating, shall I say.

I- if you wanna talk like a little bit about David and, and some of his work, I, I would really appreciate that 'cause, um, it's so sad that he passed and he did s- such great, great work.

Yeah.

So, um, you know, full disclosure, he's a really good friend of mine and like, uh, mentor and we wrote some pieces together.

Um, but he was like really, um...

I think one of the things he's known for is, is his work on Bitcoin and, and, um, on, uh, cyber libertarianism.

Um, and, um-...

I, I'm not really gonna do it like a great justice but what I would, what I, what I would point out is the connections he made between these technologies and, um, the far right and between some of these technologies and some of these technologists or, you know, venture capitalists and things like that.

... like, a better pro- a better perspective of like the history of it- of it all and- and how this technology is used against Black and brown people and delivery workers and working class people.