And that just is, you know, with a little bit of history for folks that don't know, how do you end up joining Sabotage originally?

Well, when I was 17 years old, I wound up getting the gig playing guitar for a band on Columbia Records called Heaven, and they had a record out called Knockin' on Heaven's Door, and they had a cover of the Dylan song, which was very similar to what Guns N' Roses used after they released it for their Knockin' on Heaven's Door.

And, you know, it was one with heavy metal power chords in it.

And Paul O'Neill was the producer and manager of that band.

And I just happened to get the gig when I was 17 because I always told people it was not fake ID, but it was my brother's driver's license.

New York went from 19 to 21 on the drinking age, and I had my brother's license.

Driver's license at the time didn't have pictures.

And so to kind of just go back a bit for a second to that period where you come in, tell me about striking a six-string bond with Chris back then at the time that you joined.

Just a piece of

memorabilia.

I go into that.

There's so many things down on the walls here throughout the years.

It's just so funny.

I have lots of old tour books and t-shirts.

It's funny when you look at the concert shirt from when you were 15.

Does it surprise you all these years later that, That the passion of the audience is still as rabid as it is.

So at 19, how, how does a 19-year-old get into Savatage and get in, and get into, you know, uh, touring with Dio and Megadeth? That's gotta blow your mind at 19.

Well, actually, I was 17 and I got the guitar-playing gig in the band, Heaven, when Mitch Perry left.

Um, I was hanging out in New York City [laughs] and this is the real truth, the reason why I got the gig was fake ID.

Not fake ID, my brother's ID, 'cause he was 19 and the drinking age moved to 21, but if you were 19 you got grandfathered in.

So I wasn't drinking at the time, but me and my brother would go to the clubs in the city, and I would go in first 'cause they didn't have picture licenses yet.

So I'd have his license, Social Security card, a credit card.

I'd get in at 17 to these clubs, and I, we were hanging out at a place in New York City and I met Alan, the singer from Heaven, and I gave him a cassette tape and, and I must have been good, 'cause I was getting gigs at that age.

So you're like, do you go back and just go like, wow, I can't believe, uh, how good this is, how good you're playing, like, kinda proud of yourself? How do you, how do you go back and listen to this?