Now, I know you can't mention specific companies, but what are some of the savings that you've seen or the ROI? What are you measuring? What does success look like?

So you've got probably, like, two extremes and anything in between.

So one, one end you've got organizations who are going, "Uh, we don't want to change the employee experience, but we just want to optimize the ...

We want to make sure that we're, we're, we've optimized spend.

So we're not gonna change our benefits, but it may be that we've got ..." Um, like our intelligence very quickly shows an organization that they're paying for a global travel accident policy, a regional travel accident policy, a local travel accident policy, and actually there's a, there's a travel accident policy built into the medical plan as well.

And so just very quickly being able to go, "Right, there's all this duplication or triplication." Um, and actually we can just immediately cut out a lot of that, that waste.

Or, um, uh, or it could be that, that, that you've got, um, brokers who are, you know, ultimately for most brokers they, their commissions are tied to premiums, and, uh, premiums have been rising by 10, 15% a year for the last five years.

Sure

But from your experience, what hidden technical debt tends to cause maybe the biggest operational and security problems further on down the line? And how can IT leaders that are listening, that are maybe nodding in agreement to everything we're saying, how can they better spot some of these warning signs earlier?

I like to think there's several types of debt.

There's the debt of dependency.

So these are systems that were integrated several years back, and nobody knows what breaks if you touch them because they don't know what goes on down that line.

This is where modernization just goes to die because those things just – they can – And often, sometimes these dependencies might be so insecure, but they don't know how to update it or the company has gone away or who knows what.

There's also credential debt.

Of course, in any company, people leave or they share passwords because it's easier just to share a password or they create an account that nobody remembers creating and And then they've created these permissions, and then when you revoke it, it breaks something, which basically falls right into the third type of debt, which is, I think, the worst one, which is documentation debt.

What are the most common vulnerabilities that you encounter and why do they persist? And what are the practical steps infrastructure teams make maybe should be prioritizing first.