But materially, how did you kind of go about sourcing material and then bringing that into the work? If you can kind of walk me through your process a little more in making the sculpture.

Well, believe it or not, most of the material that is in the work at the moment actually came from that 1992 work, which I brought home as pieces and stored, in inverted commas, under my hedge.

And so it sat there all these years until now.

And the material itself originally came in 1991 or 1992. from our local Puketona quarry, where they were mining scoria for the typical things that people use scoria for, particularly for drainage and that sort of thing.

Whereas I tried to rescue stone to celebrate this incredible material.

And all my stone work, if you like, the bulk of them are rescue stones, stones that were ultimately going to be crushed and used for road metal or for going into sewage drainage or something like that.

Whereas I kept all these nodules, these rather large nodules.

How do you kind of see the context in which your work is viewed or exhibited altering the reception or meaning of the work? Does it at all?

But materially, how did you kind of go about sourcing material and then bringing that into the work? If you can kind of walk me through your process a little more in making the sculpture.

Well, believe it or not, most of the material that is in the work at the moment actually came from that 1992 work, which I brought home as pieces and stored, in inverted commas, under my hedge.

And so it sat there all these years until now.

And the material itself originally came in 1991 or 1992. from our local Puketona quarry, where they were mining scoria for the typical things that people use scoria for, particularly for drainage and that sort of thing.

Whereas I try to rescue stone to celebrate this incredible material.

And all my stone work, if you like, the bulk of them are rescue stone, stones that were ultimately going to be crushed and used for road metal or for going into sewage drainage or something like that.

Whereas I kept all these nodules, these rather large nodules.

How do you kind of see the context in which your work is viewed or exhibited altering the reception or meaning of the work? Does it at all?

What happened?

So it's one of my, uh, two-second decisions that obviously got me sent into a little bit of mischief.

Um, I got released from custody, so I'd been incarcerated, uh, for a little bit of time.

When I got out, I was playing catch-up.

Um, catching up with that life that I wanted.

Um, the, the money, uh, all the bits and bobs that I felt I missed out on.

I got released to an area, uh, that was just out- outside of Telford.

Is that because he was far from tiny?

Mm-hmm

... and endpoints, and that continued during my clinical trials training.

So while I was doing kind of, you know, real world data before it was called that, working with the Ontario Cancer Registry and the linked datasets to look at access, quality, and outcomes, I continued to be, you know, maybe a somewhat of a healthy skeptic about some of the interventions and things that we were doing and the extent to which they delivered both patient-level benefit and societal benefit.

And so while I was working with registries and big datasets, I continued to work in, in some space with the magnitude of benefit.

And really a pivotal moment was, um, now, well, I guess a quite a bit over a decade ago when I had a sabbatical and the opportunity to live and work in South India.

And so we had four young kids at the time, and so we packed up our family and moved to Kerala, and I was based as a visiting scientist at, at the Regional Cancer Center in Trivandrum, Kerala, and also at Pallium India, a really a remarkable, um, grassroots palliative care NGO, um, led by, uh, Dr. Rajgopal.

And so I was working at, you know, one of India's leading cancer centers and then the palliative care program, and that to me was just a remarkable, I guess, culmination of many things I'd been interested in: delivery of care, access to care, health justice, magnitude of benefit, some of these really big picture societal challenges about how to optimally care for people with the treatment that we know works.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

But then recently, so then there was a lot of unpeacefulness, if that's even a word, but unrest inside me because of that situation.

And then one of my biggest goals was... to since i've been out was to to get back to that family table have the sunday dinner have the conversation with my mom and my dad and uh to say look i know i've done the dvds from jail i've done the letters from jail i've sent messages i've sent fucking pigeons and smoke smoke signals all that type of stuff letting them know how I feel and like my sorries.

And then so there was a lot of unrest there because I was with, that was my biggest goal.

And then, So I went to Craig Harrison's podcast the other week down in Eastleigh.

And I'm originally a Pompey boy, so I'm from Portsmouth.

I love the sea.

a few weeks ago, isn't it? Yeah,