And obviously since your first like Kickstarter, um, how is your thinking about that that sort of platform changed over the years because then obviously the platform has changed over you know things have gone up and down and obviously for you to build that following and continue to successfully use it you know what has that journey been like for you using kickstarter

you do like with every kickstarter you do learn something new um as i'm sure like dan knows and i know tony's done as well um there's always something to learn from each one that you do yeah and it's i guess um like you learned everyone has like a different idea.

Like I'll always say, Oh, and they always say get the followers in first because of that initial launch.

Obviously the first 48 hours is like the biggest thing in the Kickstarter.

So if you've got those people following it earlier on and they know that it's about to be launched, then they're on board sort of right from the get go.

Um, but I know a lot of people will say, they get those followers in and it means nothing.

So it always seems a bit random to me.

I mean, what comics were you reading that then, you know, you obviously, you started, you wanted to draw comics and you, you know, but from there to that first Kickstarter, there's obviously a bit of a journey, isn't there? What was that like?