And where would you start for folks who are maybe coming to this interview hearing about McCarthyism or wanting some broader takes on this repression? You know, obviously, we have NSPM 7, but I'm curious where you would start the story

from.

Let's talk about the original McCarthyism for a second.

I think it's often misunderstood.

There's a popular narrative that's like the Communist Party was so unpopular that the people hated them so much.

There was this sort of grassroots organic anger.

And you hear this in World War I, too.

And how much was it written by an AI that was just given whatever is in Stephen Miller's notebooks? But yeah, tell us about this Cuba report.

I was wondering if you could talk about how this sledgehammer has been used this past year and why defending rights and dissent are sounding the alarm and are particularly interested in this.

Yeah, and we're actually preparing to release a number of documents on the NSPM 7.

So NSPM 7 is this counterterrorism document.

Whenever we discuss Trump, we have to avoid falling in one of two pitfalls.

One is to pretend this is all unique.

Nothing like this has ever happened.

and two, to pretend like this is just business as usual, so heightened alarm is not needed.

And it's like, I'm the violent one because I want to afford food.

Now, listeners of the show will know that we have mentioned this on the program before, but Chip, seeing as it's almost this festering pile of Orwellian slop's first birthday, we're recording this on September 8th, I was wondering if you could talk about the, how this sledgehammer has been used this past year, and why Defending Rights and Dissent are sounding the alarm and are particularly interested in this.

Yeah, and we're actually preparing to release a number of documents on the NSPM-7.

So NSPM-7 is this counter-terrorism document.

Uh, whenever we discuss Trump, we have to avoid falling in one of two pitfalls.

One is to pretend this is all unique, nothing like this has ever happened, and two, to pretend like this is just business as usual, so heightened alarm is not needed.

With NSPM-7, what Trump is doing is he is exposing the McCarthyite core of US counter-terrorism policy.

I think just like with Venezuela where he is very openly taking their oil, something that we, you know, said Mr. Bush was doing, but he would come out and say, "Oh, no, no, the democracy, the human rights, the, the freedom fries." The freedom fries.

It really depends on who's interfering

Um, just speak about that- that case a bit, and how dangerous it is to be speaking (laughs) about, um, deporting somebody based on their political speech.

Well, I have to thank my colleague Nathan Fuller.

He's the one who wrote that article for the Gaza First Amendment Alert.

He did a really good job.

Um, but no, the Mamdani, uh, calls for deportation are part of a larger trend that we've seen.

Uh, you know, it isn't just Trump, it goes back to Hoover and the Palmer Raids, uh, when we would s- use sort of immigration law as a tool for political policing.

Um, it's very disturbing to see somebody...

(laughs).

Before we move to Tulsi Gabbard, if you can talk about Kash Patel talking about going after journalists and also making an enemies list.

Well, Kash Patel is one of Donald Trump's most disturbing picks, and that is saying something.

Patel's comments about going after journalists should be very alarming, first of all, because no one should be in a law enforcement or intelligence position who wants to go after journalists.

And I think we have to clarify that the FBI— is both a law enforcement agency and an intelligence agency.

It's been a hybrid agency since Hoover, and Hoover used the intelligence aspects of the FBI to go after King, to go after civil rights protesters.

And in spite of this myth of sort of the reformed FBI, Ever since then, they've been doing exactly the same thing.

While writing my book, I've come up with documents from right before 9-11 that show them spying on World Bank protesters with incredibly intrusive means.

Chip, we just have two minutes for those who aren't familiar with this case, but also what this means if she were to become the director of national intelligence or if it's going to be the basis on which she's voted down.