Mm-hmm.

I mean, to have this strategy that they used for the McKissicks to get their license, but they had to give it to them.

And then they became the first Black licensed architects in America with License 117 and 118.

And because of that, the Tennessee Licensing Board now gets all this notoriety, because they have licensed the first Black men in America.

Um, and as a result of that, they have a reversal in their, uh, stance on whether they should be licensed or not, and they- decide they should be licensed and help them to get licensed in 22 other states.

Mm.

Mm.The city of Nashville, other architectural firms and construction firms at the time approached her and told her, "You're a woman.

You can't run this business.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, to have this strategy that they used for the McKissicks to get their license, but they had to give it to them.

And then they became the first Black licensed architects in America with License 117 and 118.

And because of that, the Tennessee licensing board now gets all this notoriety, because they have licensed the first Black men in America.

Um, and as a result of that, they have a reversal in their, uh, stance on whether they should be licensed or not, and they- decide they should be licensed and help them to get licensed in 22 other states.

Mm.

Mm.The city of Nashville, other architectural firms and construction firms at the time approached her and told her, "You're a woman.

You can't run this business.

Because she's the fifth generation, they've had more moments of truth than many, many other businesses and families.

It's all about being excellent.

You know, I understand that I received this inheritance at an unimaginable cost.

unimaginable cost.

So what I do with it really matters.

And so I can't cut corners.

I have to put my best foot forward.

And here we are with the fifth generation still having as one of the principles, a deeply embedded spirit of being a risk taker.

Right? Yes.

Okay, so how did the McKissicks stay in business for five generations? And so we looked at what were some of the qualities, and that's how we came up with the five Ps, persistence, preparedness, perseverance.

perseverance and then productivity.

And then, of course, I added the other, which is prayer, because it had to be a purpose bigger than ourselves.

It had to be something much bigger than us at work.

And believe it or not, Eric, I deal with some of the same things they dealt with 120 years ago.

I don't know if you remember, there's a line in the book that says, you know, oftentimes America's progress leaves you off right where you started.

In everything, from the way you went to school and where you socialized and everything was probably all about the experiences they wanted you to have as a future leader.

Mm.

I mean, to have this strategy that they used for the McKissicks to get their license, but they had to give it to them.

And then they became the first Black licensed architects in America with License 117 and 118.

And because of that, the Tennessee Licensing Board now gets all this notoriety because they have licensed the first Black men in America.

Um, and as a result of that, they have a reversal in their, uh, stance on whether they should be licensed or not, and they decide they should be licensed and help them to get licensed in 22 other states.

Mm.

The city of Nashville, other architectural firms and construction firms at the time approached her and told her, "You're a woman.

You can't run this business.

But then when I look at Moses and his brother, who were licensed, I think, in 1922, sports certified in the state of Tennessee, I go, how?

And so that's very interesting.

It was Moses McKissack III and Calvin incorporated us in 1905.

But that was the second McKissack business because the first one was with Moses McKissack II right after emancipation.

But in 1905, the state of Tennessee didn't have architectural licensing laws.

That didn't come into effect until the 20s.

And so for them to even stay in business, they had to have these licenses.

And she's still in Nashville, right? And

But then when I look at Moses and his brother, who were licensed, I think, in 1922, sports certified in the state of Tennessee, I go, how?

And so that's very interesting.

It was Moses McKissack III and Calvin incorporated us in 1905.

But that was the second McKissack business because the first one was with Moses McKissack II right after emancipation.

But in 1905, the state of Tennessee didn't have architectural licensing laws.

That didn't come into effect until the 20s.

And so for them to even stay in business, they had to have these licenses.

Yeah.

But then when I look at Moses and his brother, who were licensed, I think, in 1922, sports certified in the state of Tennessee, I go, how?

And so that's very interesting.

It was Moses McKissack III and Calvin incorporated us in 1905.

But that was the second McKissack business because the first one was with Moses McKissack II right after emancipation.

But in 1905, the state of Tennessee didn't have architectural licensing laws.

That didn't come into effect until the 20s.

And so for them to even stay in business, they had to have these licenses.

And she's still in Nashville, right? And

But then when I look at Moses and his brother, who were licensed, I think, in 1922, sports certified in the state of Tennessee, I go, how?

And so that's very interesting.

It was Moses McKissack III and Calvin incorporated us in 1905.

But that was the second McKissack business because the first one was with Moses McKissack II right after emancipation.

But in 1905, the state of Tennessee didn't have architectural licensing laws.

That didn't come into effect until the 20s.

And so for them to even stay in business, they had to have these licenses.

Yeah.

But then when I look at Moses and his brother, who were licensed, I think, in 1922, sports certified in the state of Tennessee, I go, how?

And so that's very interesting.

It was Moses McKissack III and Calvin incorporated us in 1905.

But that was the second McKissack business because the first one was with Moses McKissack II right after emancipation.

But in 1905, the state of Tennessee didn't have architectural licensing laws.

That didn't come into effect until the 20s.

And so for them to even stay in business, they had to have these licenses.

she's still in Nashville, right? And