So what do you say to that?

Well, I say that tens of thousands of illegal migrants in Ceuta, a city that has had weak borders for years and years without the socialists doing anything, what they don't realize is that their policies make us vulnerable to rogue actors like Morocco, like Russia, like Turkey, who weaponize migration against us.

We need to secure the borders in order for that not to happen, and the socialists are not partners in that.

We dismantle some of these courts.

That's not what I said.

I said we need to have an informed discussion about the meaning of the asylum rules of today.

Does it make sense that a migrant can travel through country and country and country to apply for asylum in the European Union? No, it does not.

It should be the first safe country, and that principle has not been applied in decades.

So I know we've been debating this here in Brussels for months, but just remind our viewers what is in this deal, 'cause some say the measures are rather draconian.

Well, uh, the EU has reached a landmark deal on the return regulation.

That means, uh, for instance, longer detention periods to, uh, prevent people from absconding, firm entry bans, uh, that carry real weight, and the legal framework for, um, return hubs.

So, uh, indeed, uh, the era of deportations, uh, has begun.

We're moving from words to actual enforcement of our laws and our borders.

But why do you think this will fix the problem? Does migration not need an overall much more holistic approach?

Well, we do have an, uh, a holistic approach.

For instance, we are stopping asylum shopping, people moving through, uh, a range of safe countries on their way to a destination in a rich country in Europe.