Why is that? I mean, why does the political class have such contempt for ordinary people, the same people they want to vote for them?

Well, I don't know if it's contempt.

I know they, you know, look at what's happening in Victoria.

They're all over us at the moment.

The politicians are all over us at the moment because they're chasing their votes and all this stuff.

But once that election is done and dusted, we are the forgotten.

We are the forgotten.

A, do you believe them, and B, do you think it'll make any difference?

Why is that? I mean, why does the political class have such contempt for ordinary people, the same people they want to vote for them?

Well, I don't know if it's contempt.

I know they, you know, look at what's happening in Victoria.

They're all over us at the moment.

The politicians are all over us at the moment because they're chasing their votes and this and that.

But once that election is done and dusted, we are the forgotten.

We are the forgotten.

in

Charlie, what do you make of the opposition's policy on one strike bail? It's great in theory, but can it be executed?

Well, I think it can.

It's a matter of then we've got to take a stand somewhere.

We've been going on for so long, the crime capital as we are.

there's got to be a stance somewhere.

Once they're locked up, they're not committing any further offences, not on good people anyway.

But at the end of the day, that's the consequences they've got to be.

Does it frustrate you both sides of the aisle that they just don't put proper things in place?

Am I right?

Absolutely.

He couldn't be more onside.

And he's echoing all the thoughts that I've had over the period of time.

And he will be music to the ears of victims of crime to start turning this around.

And what he says is so significant.

Everyone's got to be on the same page in relation to getting it done.

I mean, that's like something,

So are there the numbers, Charlie, that that is the case, it's already happening in Victoria?

Yeah, very much so.

And I, and I've seen it, that, uh, basically, you know, we've seen, what, over 65 arrests for the, uh, arson attacks on the, uh, on these liquor outlets.

So that's working.

I, I, I, I get around and I think, uh, y- like yourselves, and I have seen an increase in there.

My only criticism is my ... seeing these police, they're patrolling up and down the street in groups of about five or eight or whatever the case may be.

Well, don't get too scared.

... and I'm, you know, I wanna go and knock on the door of my local police station, you sort of do expect them to be open.

So are there the numbers, Charlie, that that is the case, it's already happening in Victoria?

Yeah, very much so.

And I, and I've seen it.

Uh, basically, you know, we've seen what? Over 65 arrests for the, uh, arson attacks on the, uh, on these liquor outlets.

So that's working.

I, I, I, I, I get around and I think, uh, y- like yourselves, and I have seen an increase in there.

My only criticism is my- uh, seeing these police, they're patrolling up and down the street in groups of about five or eight or whatever the case may be.

So Charlie, of course, uh, if, if I wanted to go and see a police, uh, police officer, um, you know, it's two o'clock in the morning and I'm, you know, I wanna go knock on the door of my local police station, you sort of do expect them to be open.

We sat here at the time, and I said [laughs] and we both said, "Look, what 14-year-old with a machete is gonna turn up at a police station with a CCTV camera trained on him, holding a machete and saying, 'I'm putting it in the bin'"?

Yeah, very much so.

And as it's said by a lot of people, it's the honest person, like the gun amnesty, that, that hand in their, their weapons and, uh, the gardeners, the, the, the handyman, the, the tradespeople have done that, and that's all they've done.

So, $30 million could have been sp- spent better in elsewhere, but it really comes down to, and I know we can't lock our- lock up our way out of all of this, it has to come down to penalty and consequences, and we're not reaching that mark at all.

... possessing a machete.

Yeah.

And that's where the, the, the punch comes from, and that's where the consequences by these people.

Look at the, the murders, the, the significant assaults that happened.

What are your initial thoughts on, on what we've heard about that awful situation they were in? And I know you had to make split second decisions, but what did you think?

A, a lot of it is just obviously speculation because it hasn't been aired in, in a court.

Ultimately, a- and as you said, that, uh, he was licensed with A and B category, there's no indication.

I would expect that given the fact that his license had expired, the local police would have then gone about retrieving any firearms that he would have owned at the time or that were licensed at the time.

Now, I'm assuming that's taken place, but I haven't read anything that in fact did happen, the fact of his license expiring and police did in fact seize this particular firearm, that particular firearm, or whatever firearm it was.

Regardless of that, given the nature of Desi Freeman and the police knowing his antecedents, you certainly go in in an intelligence gathering process in relation to what's the risk factors in relation to us conducting a, a, uh, search warrant and an arrest warrant on this particular individual that's got a severe hatred of police.

Clearly, they would have done a risk assessment of sort that, that will be aired, uh, within the coronial hearing, and then any applications they may or may not have made in relation to referring it up the ladder to the Special Operations Group.

What do you think?

I mean, that makes you cry, I bet.

Yeah, very much so.

And, um, in this particular instance, I, I know Charlotte.

She's part of our, uh, group that I'm part of, Community Alli- um, uh, Advocacy Alliance.

And every month we meet, and every month she comes up with these stories in relation to non-police support in the pharmacy that she has in St Kilda, and it's heartbreaking.

And when I saw that footage and, and the police not turning up, is absolutely tragic.

And if that's, uh, the state we live in, we're in big trouble.

If you were the police minister, and I wish you were, um, what would be the first thing you would do?

Yeah

It, it just frustrates the hell out of you, and that's where it all leans to the accused person, so...

I had another one, um, this lady, again, an elderly lady, and it just shows you the hum- inhumanity of certain people in families.

I don't know if you knew about this, was an elderly lady in her mid-80s, early to mid-80s, fella- lady called Phyllis Hocking, lived in Box Hill.

We get a call.

She's been living in the lounge room, which was converted into a bedroom, at her son's house in Box Hill.

She'd been battered to death with a heavy, blunt object.

Yeah, right.

Mm.

And I got my name, I'm putting my name to it, and I'll let it sit in the back and, "Well, hang on.

What about this particular a- avenue of in- we didn't do that.

Go and do it.

'Cause if I don't pick it up, the defense will."Had another one, and this lady, again, an elderly lady, and it just shows you the hu- inhumanity of certain people in families.

Elderly lady in her mid-80s, early to mid-80s, fella, lady called Phyllis Hocking, lived in Box Hill.

She's been living in the lounge room, which was converted into a bedroom, at her son's house in Box Hill.

Yeah.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, and the other twist to it, she didn't have any underwear on.

So from experience, you do know that, as an investigator, that one trait is when a female has been assaulted, let's say a rape, or that then leads to a death, or they want to rape a person post-mortem, that they don't want to look at the face, they'll put a covering over the face.

Here we've got a covering over the face.

legs splayed open, no underwear.

Well, you think of the sinister.

We then start your investigation.

Yeah.

Yeah,

and the other twist to it, she didn't have any underwear on.

So from experience, you do know that, as an investigator, that one trait is when a female has been assaulted, let's say a rape, or that then leads to a death, or they want to rape a person post-mortem, that they don't want to look at the face, they'll put a covering over the face.

Here we've got a covering over the face.

legs splayed open, no underwear.

Well, you think of the sinister.

We then start your investigation.

Yeah.

So you're going to be there to guide me through it.

That's right, and they cling to you because you just imagine, the first thing, people don't have much to do with police often, apart from being a traffic crime or whatever the case may be, but to get a homicide detective knocking on your door and saying, you know what, it was bad news for you, and sitting down with deceased families, the amount of times I've sat down with families in their lounge rooms, and you say to them, look, I'll be honest with you as much as I can.

I'm not going to lie to you.

I'm not going to soften it because if you don't be honest with them from the get-go, They're going to find out at the trial and your whole credibility is down the chute.

So after processing the crime scene, you spend hours and hours and then your next step is going to the family's home and trying to tell them, well, look, if it's an unsolved, we're going to do everything we can to solve it and unlock the movies.

Whereas the movies, you see them dealing with one case.

One particular year, I had 14 homicides that I was dealing with in one year.

Yeah.