So tell us a little about yourself, Zweig Group, how you've kind of gone from the engineering side into the business side of the industry.

Sure.

Well, it's kind of neat.

This morning, right before the opening session, I ran into a guy that was on the very first day of my very first job, 32 years ago.

in the engineering industry.

So that's the neat thing about these events.

It brings people back.

What was the thing that really sparked the idea about going into more of the business development and marketing side of it from the strict civil engineering side? What kind of, what was the first spark and opportunity that allowed you to kind of go in that direction?