Catharina is now pregnant after an earlier miscarriage.

I felt that it was such a surprise when we lost our first baby.

I was expecting everything to be normal because the experiences of people that I had close by, they were-- they seemed to be very positive.

But actually, when I experienced miscarriage myself, I started to get to know people who also experienced the same thing, but they just didn't talk about it.

Maybe Joseph can tell also how it was for him.

Catharina, how far along were you in your pregnancy when you had the miscarriage?

I, I was in the beginning, so it was six weeks, and that's also very tricky because when we went to the hospital and then we did the ultrasound and the baby wasn't developing as it should be, the doctor said that it's more normal than we think, and it happens to many women, but that's the last thing that you actually want to hear because you just wish that you had your baby there and healthy in the ultrasound and some positive news.

And it's also, you have mixed feelings because you are grieving for someone that you've never met, and you never will get to know, but you still feel sad.