What do you think's on that punch list of what it takes to get a seat at the table now? Is it the same, or has it changed?

Honestly, I think it's a lot of the same, because again, getting out of the engineering ranks and into the business side, it's gonna be tough when they see you as just an engineer.

At least when you have that MBA, you can say, "No, I know a little bit about business." I think the second thing for me was I was always asking the questions on more than just my space.

So I could have designed the suspension I was working on, or the chassis I was working on, or the electronics or whatever it was.

I could have designed those.

But it was also a question of why am I designing them, and how do they interact with other areas of the unit, and that also then with the consumer.

So as I came to Whirlpool, because I grew up in a farm community, I knew about tractors, and I knew about farmers, and I knew a little bit about that consumer.

[laughs]