Casey, tell me about this Making New Zealand Healthy plan.

I think the, the big point that we're saying here is that we need reform of how we look at health.

You know, all of the things that we know to be the health system, the hospitals, the doctors, the nurses, the medicines, all form part of that.

But we shifted away, um, progressively from recognizing the things that make people well, and, you know, it's been really important as New Zealand first prioritized health reform for older New Zealanders, and, you know, we had- we drove the health select commi- committee inquiry, is actually understanding that, you know, rather than the narrative of we're living a long time, actually recognize that we need to live well longer, and there's a lot we can do to support the health system.

And you know, this is why we ...

You know, nutrition is a huge part of this conversation.

You know, actually introducing nutrition right through education, right through to medical school, that nutrition, that the part it plays is critically important.

But that's kind of the point, isn't it, with New Zealand First's plan, it's to make New Zealand healthy so they don't get to that point, right?

How have you been getting the numbers into Police Recruitment College going up? Are we lowering the standards here? What's going on?

No, absolutely, and this is what's been so great, and I have to...

You know, the Deputy Commissioner, Jill Rogers, has been a stalwart in this space.

Um, really changed the way we advertise.

You saw very early on we, we redid the, "He ain't heavy, he's my brother," sort of advert.

It's about the telling really positive stories about what policing career is.

Um, you know, we increased to a 20-week course.

It's a good thing, but it'd be nice if they were less of them.

How have you been getting the numbers into Police Recruitment College going up? Are we lowering the standards here? What's going on?

No, absolutely, and this is what's been so great, and I have to...

You know, the Deputy Commissioner Jill Rogers has been a stalwart in this space.

Um, really changed the way we advertise.

You saw very early on, we, we redid the, "He ain't heavy, he's my brother" sort of advert.

It's about the telling really positive stories about what policing career is.

Um, you know, we increased to a 20-week course.

It's a good thing, but it'd be nice if there were less of them.

Casey, if Kiwis are concerned about crime in this country, why should they vote for New Zealand First?

I think the big shift that we've seen and what we've been driving as a program of work is a recognition that we've shifted from the obvious ram raids, the things that impact our day-to-day lives across communities, and what we've now got to address is the drivers that sit behind that, and that's where I'm talking about the organized crime component.

In day-to-day life, we, we interact with the burglaries and the ram raids and the, the violence on the streets.

But what I'm saying that New Zealand has to wake up to is what's occurring behind that that's driving the misery and harm that's sitting in our communities.

We talk a lot about methamphetamine, we talk a lot about the drug component, but a lot of us see it as something that happens over there and but actually, you know, I've just come back from Kaikohe and, and Keri Keri this weekend and, you know, the far north is one of those areas that is impacted greatly.

And we have a common enemy in this space, and this is international organized cartels that are profiting off misery, and that is the cash wages money laundering that is driving anti-competitive behavior in construction and, and, and horticulture and agriculture.

This is, um, impacting businesses going into liquidation because they can't compete.

Is that still a party policy?

Is there one specific group, Minister, that scares you the most or are we at the stage now where these international huge players are working together?

That's the problem with it.

It's like the fingers in the dike.

We block one and something else will come through.

We saw in the first few weeks of this year, 14 tonnes of cocaine was intercepted in the Pacific that was heading to Australia and New Zealand.

That's unprecedented, unheard of levels of drug activity.

Everywhere that you have a legitimate trade link, you will end up with an illicit market coming in behind it.

Nice and clear

Is there one specific group, Minister, that scares you the most, or are we at the stage now where these international huge players are working together?

That's the problem with it.

It's like the fingers in the dike.

We block one and something else will come through.

We saw in the first few weeks of this year, 14 tonnes of cocaine was intercepted in the Pacific that was heading to Australia and New Zealand.

That's unprecedented, unheard of levels of drug activity.

So everywhere that you have a legitimate trade link, you will end up with an illicit market coming in behind it So this is about ensuring that we are as connected up as we can.

Nice and clear

Is it getting worse? Is that what has brought us to this point? Or is it just common sense that brought us to this point?

It is getting worse in that they move faster than we do.

I think the MAG report talked about they move at the speed of money, we move at the speed of law.

And the level of sophistication, the way we've heard about the cyber scam centres, we've heard about the way our Pacific borders are being compromised as a transition point for drugs.

The first six months of this year we we intercepted 14 tonnes of cocaine in the Pacific.

You know, that's just unheard of.

So that's the problem, is that they are much more sophisticated, they are much more connected, and we need to be better at it.

You're covering all of this.

Is it getting worse? Is that what has brought us to this point, or is it just common sense that brought us to this point?

It is getting worse in that they move faster than we do.

I think the MAG report talked about they move at the speed of money, we move at the speed of law.

And the level of sophistication, the way we've heard about the cyber scam centres, we've heard about the way our Pacific borders are being compromised as a transition point for drugs.

The first six months of this year, we intercepted 14 tonnes of cocaine in the Pacific.

That's just unheard of.

So that's the problem is that they are much more sophisticated, they are much more connected, and we need to be better at it.

You're covering all of this.

Mm.

Uh, so this is, you know, a really rethink, and I, um, really acknowledge that idea that we don't actually have... and we talk a lot about it, about a care system.

We actually don't have a care system.

We have, you might access this part and you might access residential care, but actually navigating it for anybody who's in the system, um, it's really difficult.

And the big part is actually changing this to keep people well, having a conversation about, um, what do we do to keep people well.

Obviously not before the election, but if you get back, is there something big on the cards?

Yeah, I think there is really good things that we can do and, uh, you know, really innovative things around, and, and that's what I've really sort of reiterated in this conversation.

I've traveled this country, visited every type of care facility you can imagine, and there is absolutely outstanding models of care existing now.

Mm.

Uh, so this is, you know, a really rethink, and I, um, really acknowledge that idea that we don't actually have ...

We talk a lot about it, about a care system.

We actually don't have a care system.

We have, you might access this part and you might access residential care, but actually navigating it for anybody who's in the system, um, it's really difficult.

And the big part is actually changing this to keep people well, having a conversation about, um, what do we do to keep people well.

Obviously, not before the election, but if you get back, is there something big on the cards?

Yeah, I think there is really good things that we can do, and I, I, you know, really innovative things around, and, and that's what I've really sort of reiterated in this conversation.

Who should pay and why?

I think the part that we're differentiating here is what is the health care? What is the accommodation component? What are the other services component? That's part of what the report talks about.

But in reality, we have a system where people that can pay are paying currently.

And the other part is that we have a publicly funded, privately delivered system as a whole.

So I think it is recognising that in some aspects people are already paying.

and that there is some flex in how that system is delivered.

So healthcare should absolutely be delivered by the state.

When you say some people are already paying, if you accept these recommendations, more people will pay and they will pay more, will they not?

So this is just winter illness, is it?

Yeah, there is a peaks and troughs.

I think ambulance did a really good job sort of explaining the challenges they're facing at the moment, which is, you know, it is a peaks and troughs environment.

And I think really to be clear, this is a really positive move by St John's to say we're stepping up, we're putting systems in place to manage this peak.

Let's see how the next few days go.

It's about improving the management systems to escalate in this type of environment.

Are more people getting sick or are more people calling when they don't actually need an ambulance?

I think it was a mixture and that was what was really clear.

Are you satisfied they have the workforce and the funding to deal with that extraordinary kind of demand? Unless you forget, there were four days in the past seven in which they broke records for the number of calls received.

Yeah, and 91% of those calls on advice were answered within 15 seconds.

So this is about their ability to scale and respond absolutely.

And this is a really balanced conversation around ensuring that they have the resources, yes, that we're investing in the technology and the development of their capability and their workforce and their recruitment and training.

All of those components come into this.

And they are responding as they should by announcing that they are creating a major incident to step change to manage these peaks.

It will constantly be a demand of resources, absolutely.

We have to fund that, don't we?

How many people smoke illegal cigarettes? Because there was one study that found something like 40% of packets in the bin were illegal ones.

Yeah, there's some studies that have done.

I mean, those studies really wouldn't withstand a huge amount of scrutiny.

What we go by is the survey results, which we do every year around how many actual people are smoking.

But the prevalence is clear.

It's why I was really concerned about this reduced retailer network which we repealed when we first came in because if we'd gone down to less and less legal locations, you'd end up with more and more illegal locations of buying cigarettes.

So the prevalence is really difficult to pinpoint.

They said that these illegal ones have even more harmful chemicals for people, including higher levels of uranium.

How many people smoke illegal cigarettes? Because there was one study that found, you know, something like 40% of packets in the bin were illegal ones.

Yeah, there's some studies that have done, I mean, those... studies really wouldn't withstand a huge amount of scrutiny.

What we go by is the survey results which we do every year around how many actual people are smoking but the prevalence is clear.

It's why I was really concerned about this reduced retailer network which we repealed when we first came in because if we'd gone down to less and less legal locations, you'd end up with more and more illegal locations of buying cigarettes.

So the prevalence is really difficult to pinpoint.

They said that these illegal ones have even more harmful chemicals for people, including higher levels of uranium.

Yeah, this is the part that, you know, this is what we need to tell the public.

The public have to be on board with this.

That's the point, isn't it, Casey? Because have the taxers run their course? They may have reduced smoking, but now, because of the high taxes, they're causing crime.

Yeah, and this is what...

The cabinet paper that I put through with the last excise increase was to say we really need to review these decisions because it's an automatic mechanism at the moment.

And so I did say we need to...

this needs to be reviewed, that we have to, you know, the Australian example, their purse packet price is much higher than us.

Plus they did a few other things, you know, they made vapes prescription only, that drove a whole other market.

So they did some things that we've learnt from, and it's what I said when I took this role on.

So what can be done to stop the cigarettes, the illegal ones, from entering the country at the border?

But personally, personally, would you commit to lower excise duties at a level that still actually prevents people from wanting to take up smoking, but at the same time stops the illegal cigarettes growing?

Well, I think the, the key thing that, and, and this is the regulatory settings that we're trying to work through at the moment, is, and that, that'll be the next cabinet paper I bring forward, is that reduced harm, like the differential, like making products, um, which was what we did with the heated tobacco, is making less harmful products and price differential, um, ensuring that those other less harmful products are available.

But yeah, I th- I think it's not so much reducing it, but do we keep increasing it, um, at the rate that we've been doing, is the discussion that I think is really important to have.

So what can be done to stop the cigarettes, the illegal ones, from entering the, the country at the border?

Yeah, so this is...

We...

I mean, we've had huge success and this is, you know, we're seeing the same thing in methamphetamine and, and the other illicit products that come through the border.

We've had huge success.

Do, do, do the people on the vessel realize it's there, or has it been done without their knowledge?

Generally it's, um, mostly it would be without their knowledge.

Um, but, you know, there may be some crew on the ship that know it's there because they'll be...

But it can be easily attached.

And, and we've had overseas instances where, um, things are magnetically attached to the sides of ships, um, and they detach when they get into port.

So yeah, th- this is all part of, uh, what I've been saying for a long time, is that the criminals that we are focusing on here are very organized, very well-resourced, very, uh, connected, and this is why all of the technology and investment that we've announced at Customs today is so important.

So, um, and what's, what is the value of having a robot do it rather than a diver? Is it cheaper?

Yeah, that, that means that we...

Do, do, do the people on the vessel realize it's there or has it been done without their knowledge?

Generally it's, um, mostly it would be without their knowledge.

Um, but, you know, there may be some crew on the ship that know it's there because they'll be...

But it can be easily attached.

And, and we've had overseas instances where, um, things are magnetically attached to the sides of ships, um, and they detach when they get into port.

So yeah, th- this is all part of, uh, what I've been saying for a long time is that the criminals that we are focusing on here are very organized, very well-resourced, very, uh, connected, and this is why all of the technology and the investment that we've announced at Customs today is so important.

So, um, and what's, what is the value of having a robot do it rather than a diver? Is it cheaper?

Yeah.