So how do you work? How do you try to fix that? What's the next step there, Carolyn?

Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, I would say in this particular case, it didn't go as well as other ones that I've been in the middle of for lots of reasons.

I mean, I think when you are purchased by a company who doesn't really understand how to do this well or who hasn't done it before, I think it makes it much more difficult, much less successful in the outcome.

I mean, I think there's just there's just tons of research that says that.

So and it's all true.

I think what we tried to do was to be as open and as honest and as upfront as we possibly could as an executive team with our people.

own function,

ready.

Fair enough.

I'm one of these people who any kind of significant changes I've made, I just kind of like... close your eyes and jump in the deep end of the pool.

And that's basically, you know, kind of the way I've worked through that.

I mean, in terms of the expertise, I think you have to really think about what it is that you're doing.

In my particular case, there's a lot to learn.

It doesn't necessarily on the surface seem like it's a super deep type of subject, aside from just the vast amount of wines out there and such.

What's the takeaway?

So in those moments, what is the difference between a people leader who is executing the strategy and the one who is genuinely shaping it? And, and what does the organization feel like when the CPO is in the second role?

I think what it feels like is there's a understanding of what's really going on, if you will, on the ground.

I've always found that myself as I, I kind of grew up in the HR business partner side of the house, um, and I've always had great HR business partners working for me, and they get a amazing sense of what some of the challenges are, um, at the, at the level where executives don't always play and they don't always see what's happening.

So if I can distill that as a chief people officer and bring that into the room, but also marry that with what are the trends that are, that organizations are looking at right now, what are some of the studies saying about whatever problem that we're trying to tackle is, and for me, to use my own critical thinking skills and, and operate as an executive whose specialty just happens to be how people interact within the company in order to lead it to success, I think putting all of those together are really important.

I feel like I have had, and I still do, a good sense for being able to jump in and say, "Hey, we don't have a strategy on this, and we need to do that," or, "We have a flawed strategy.

We need to be able to talk about that.

Here's how I know." And be able to have the kinds of conversations at the level of understanding of the products, understanding of the services that we provide.

So is it possible that the real problem is not that organizations undervalue the people function, but that people leaders have not yet consistently demonstrated the kind of strategic impact?

Can you explain what you mean by that?

Yeah.

When you set up a company, a small company, maybe you're under 30 people or whatnot, everybody's of the same mind, you kind of are okay with being scrappy, if you will.

And that means that you find out things on your own.

You're kind of your own handyman, if you will, within the company.

And you're doing a lot of different things and playing a lot of different roles, et cetera.

As you get further on and you grow, that no longer serves you.

point

Hours passed before she was finally allowed to see her husband, Chad.

I remember they said, "He's not gonna look like you're used to seeing him.

He's going to have a lot of machines, and he's bruised, his head shaved," all of these things.

And so they were mentally preparing m- me, but there's, to be honest with you, no way you can be prepared to see the person you love the most in that fragile of a state.

And I do remember when the doctor came to talk to me, we stepped outside, and he said, "It's very serious.

If we don't relieve the pressure, he could die.

He will probably not be the same person ever again that you know of." Went down a kind of a horrifying list, but as a eternal optimist that I am, and knowing the character of my husband, I thought, "Well, tell me what the, the good news is.

Oh, wow.

Could you bring us up to speed?

Sure.

Well, exactly what you said earlier.

It's really not new news.

The Southern Baptist Convention has broached this topic several times in the last few years.

And every time they do, bless them, it kind of blows up and I'm sure is bigger than they mean for it to be in the outside world.

But they are now one step closer to making it part of their constitution, which is another level of permanence for the Southern Baptist Convention.

First off, I love that it's not if women lead,