So perhaps this is a direction that this conversation could go, because I would certainly be happy to hear what is the solution to not having to choose between those two extremes.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, here's one of the things that really helped me understand how, um, how my biology worked without becoming a scientist and really getting into all the, the details of it, and it was a theory called the polyvagal theory discovered by Stephen Porges.

The polyvagalinstitute.org is a great resource.

And while that theory has been challenged, uh, on some very detailed levels, the essence of it still holds, and the essence is that our nervous system moves through different states and is always looking to understand- Safety and always trying to manage how much energy is being expended.

Um, and so with polyvagal theory, what I understood is these three different states will impact how I make decisions as a leader and how I communicate.

Now, it's not as simple as here are the three states.

Hmm.