People might respond to that a bit more philosophically than they would if they were already convinced that there was a terrible problem and no one was taking it seriously.

Well, I think there is a lot of evidence that Spain's infrastructure is under real strain.

I think the high-speed rail network was seen as a symbol of Spain's success, of its modernisation.

It was clearly important to the growing economic success, or growth at least, of the country.

But there have been a whole series of these.

There was the accident that you mentioned on the same railway line yesterday.

in which, tragically, I think it was 46 people died back in January.

Do we spend perhaps not enough time reflecting as a species about how weird it is that one private individual controls 10,000 satellites?

Would it not be the right and proper thing for Australia to say now, this is your final warning, this happens one more time, you're leaving?

It's clearly an option available to Australia, but I think like many other countries around the world, they're still really struggling to work out what their overall government approach strategy should be towards all of this, because all countries and governments recognise that there are huge benefits to artificial intelligence.

I mean, the irony of this is that it's a hack into a healthcare system, and we know that Healthcare is one of the areas where AI has actually proved very beneficial in terms of speeding up processes, checking scans, screenings, all of those kinds of things.

But I think it has also just exposed the fact that The governments, their processes, their systems of working are just way behind where the technology is going.

I'm struck by the timeline that you mentioned there.

This hack was back in June.

OpenAI itself only actually discovered it in August.

Wouldn't it be nice if that idea was expanded? Like, let's not take it up there?

Mm.

And suddenly it's all laughs and jokes and the, these two guys that are suddenly, yeah, yeah, the, the bromance.

They're new, they're new best friends, and they're all, it's all going absolutely swimmingly, and they're, they're joking.

A- and it was extraordinary, but although it's easy to poke fun at, uh, the fact that, oh, they were sort of joshing with the media, and it was all very jolly, I think in a sense that was all part of that attempt to say, "Look, this is an arrangement that can work.

You know, we are two people.

This is gonna be the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister.

We're gonna run the government together.

They seemed a bit unaware of that, that at the time, that this was a potential outcome for them.

And Carol, um, I mean, history judges Cameron for being quite bold in that, in that moment.

Yeah.

And what is fascinating is that, as always goes on, on election night, there's a battle over the narratives, and the battle over the narrative that night was who's got the best argument to be the Prime Minister.

And David Cameron at his count in Witney, and I was there, and he, he, he said, "Um, Gordon Brown's lost the election." I mean, the, we'd only got, I'm not sure how many of the, um, what proportion of the votes were still in, but many votes were still to be counted, many seats were still to be decided, and he was already saying Gordon Brown has lost the election and then, as we have just heard, he came out very quickly.

But I think, but I remember, and we were back in London by then.

That's right.

Um, i- he was remaining there.

Um, and I think what is really important to remember, we, we, it, it all ground to a bit of a halt for that ceremony, but things resumed in earnest.

Mm-hmm

... which has led to a real fuel crisis there.

Um, President Putin's had to declare a state of emergency in s- in Crimea.

Um, you've also got real fuel shortages inside Russia, which, uh, uh, unsurprisingly the authorities are trying to hush up.

But- Uh, social media is still full of accounts and, um, episodes of people fighting over fuel supplies, and that is because the Ukrainians have been increasingly successful in targeting, um, Russia's fuel infrastructure, its refineries, its pipelines, and so on.

And then you add to that, uh, the Ukrainian drone attacks, including that rather high-profile one during a big conference in St. Petersburg, and this appears to be President Putin trying to show, "Look, I haven't given up yet.

I can still carry out these almighty attacks.

Mm

Just why has Tony Blair tabled these ideas now, do you think?

I think it, it's because Tony Blair has been thinking about these things and, um, gradually just putting out a few of his, his ideas, and he's reached this point that he feels that it's so important, and the Tony Blair view of how the country should be run, uh, is too important, um, to be kept under wraps for, uh, any longer.

He was initially pretty supportive of Sir Keir Starmer, not least because, uh, he replaced, uh, the very left wing previous Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, who stood for everything that Tony Blair, um, does not, um, believe in.

Um, look, I, I, I think it is a fascinating intervention.

It clearly makes things even harder for Keir Starmer.

But what is interesting is that he hasn't really made things any easier for those who are likely to be, uh, challenging to, um, overthrow, uh, Keir Starmer's leadership.

Where Tony Blair, uh, I think has a very good point is the lack of a coherent strategy from Keir Starmer's government, which came to power with this huge majority.

What do you make of that backlash?