I'm reading here that SNUD, social network use disorder, is essentially referring to problematic social media use.

[chuckles] And there's a few other labs here and there that are studying it, but they, they haven't really reached consensus on how to characterize what social media addiction means in a clinical definition.

I'm more of a bioethicist and a theorist, and my, my focus is more on just the core concept, like, how can we clean up the core conceptualization of addiction? And I think the problem with social media is precisely that, uh, the old models of addiction don't quite apply.

If you, if you apply a different model that says everybody lives on the spectrum of diminished control somewhere, then it, it makes more sense.

Because most people would say casually, I think, "Oh, I feel so addicted to my phone," or, "I feel so addicted to, like, streaming," or...

Everyone's got something.

Um, but very, very few people are going to a formal treatment center for it.

Mm-hmm

So we all can find our way to our values, but then we bring our Volvo or Porsche to sort of drive it.

Right.

Yeah.

And I'm interested in exploring the Volvo Porsche, the genius stage a little more, because I think that's...

Personally, I feel like I have a repertoire of how to explore values.

And I think even people who are not into act in substance use disorder treatment or addiction treatment, they might know some of the basic interventions like a values card sort or things like that.

But you write in the genius part of the book about things like talents and interests.

The dissemination, sort of the interface to make it user-friendly and to get therapists on board, we're still kind of a little bit out from that.