So was that like a, an exercise in empathy, or what was that about?

I, I thought of the carving as a devotional labor.

So when you say an exercise for empathy-I thought of it, this is me offering my time and my attention to the loss of this person's life, or to the shooting, to the incident that happened, this sort of grave injustice that happened.

While I was carving, I put myself through a kind of re-education of the history of race in the US.

Like, I'm a liberal, you know, left young person.

I was in Oakland for many years when Black Lives Matter was founded.

I'm an activist.

Do you feel a responsibility as an artist, or is it not, does it, does it not start there with you? Is it more just, like, that's how you commune with what's around?